sethekk halls

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sethekk halls

Postby Evangelina » Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:01 pm

Hello :)

Every tankadin I meet tells me there is no cc needed in all 5 men.
I just reached level 67 and went to the sethekk halls then (never did it before). Everything was perfect, taking all mobs, never lost aggro, no wipe, etc...First boss killed easy. Then I pull one group and get feared and aggro everything...wipe. So I tell the group I'm going to pull and bring them in the previous room. But the matter is I have difficulties to keep aggro. I get feared, they aim at the healer or someone else, when I get the aggro back, they fear me again. Well, at the end we reached the last boss, but it was very hard for me. They told the hunt and the priest to cc. Do you have any tips, please ? Is cc needed for this kind of group ? Are there other dungeon I have to expect "things" like that ?
Do I have to buy the pvp trinket ?
Last question, at the end, the last boss had a shield around him, he was immuned to magic, well I had enough threat, but what can I do If I had not ?
I guess I left a bad impression of the tankadin(that are very very rare on my server)...priest was very happy to schakle, cause at the beginning I told him it was unnecessary...
Thanks.
Evan ^^
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Re: sethekk halls

Postby Corynthia » Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:00 pm

Evangelina wrote:Every tankadin I meet tells me there is no cc needed in all 5 men.


There are definitely some places where you will need CC until you outgear the instance. The problem is that a bad/negligent CC'er causes more problems than they help. Someone who is bad at CC will not reliably get the mob CC'ed before they get into your consecrate and won't recast their CC before it breaks. When you have mobs breaking CC mid-combat, before you're ready to pick them up, it's like getting an add and it frequently leads to wipes.

However, good CC and on-time recasts are amazingly helpful.

I ran Sethekk Halls last night and we didn't use CC because the priest didn't feel capable enough. I asked, and they told me they were bad at keeping up Shackle, so I rolled my eyes and thanked them for being honest. The run was tough, and we wiped 6-7 times on an instance I consider very, very easy for me. the problem was a lack of CC.

Evangelina wrote:Everything was perfect, taking all mobs, never lost aggro, no wipe, etc...First boss killed easy. Then I pull one group and get feared and aggro everything...wipe. So I tell the group I'm going to pull and bring them in the previous room. But the matter is I have difficulties to keep aggro. I get feared, they aim at the healer or someone else, when I get the aggro back, they fear me again.

. . .

Are there other dungeon I have to expect "things" like that ?


To answer your second question directly, you will not be able to tank-and-spank anything from Mana Tombs forward. There are tricky pulls and tricky mobs, and you'll wipe many times if you don't educate yourself in advance (or while playing it).

Whenever I tank an instance, I pull up the info page on WoWWiki. For Sethekk Halls, it would be: http://www.wowwiki.com/Sethekk_Halls . I also post in party chat so everyone else can follow along too. Every time I see a new mob in the instance, I read up on them and figure out the best way to handle them. It helps you learn the instance much better.

There were three mobs you were having trouble with once you went up the stairs and reached the Hall of Silence (I think that's the name of the upper area).

The mobs are: Sethekk Prophet, Time-Lost Shadowmage, and Avian Warhawk. To a lesser degree, the Sethekk Shamans are also giving you trouble.

The Sethekk Prophet has an AOE fear while alive. They need to be marked as first and second DPS targets, and burned down fast. You can't generate threat while feared, you can't bubble squishies, and you take all your hits from behind. If you can poly/sap these, make sure to do so. Use something other than Avenger's Shield to pull with if you're worried about breaking sap. If you can't CC them, kill them first.

A big point to bring up is that when the Prophets go down, they spawn unkillable ghosts that cause massive amounts of damage. As soon as one gets low on health, move ASAP. The rest of the mobs should follow you, and it puts some distance between the ghosts and your ongoing battle. Everyone needs to watch that they get away from the ghosts, because they can easily 2-3 shot your clothies.

Avian Warhawks are tough on casters because they randomly charge and stun a caster, no matter how much aggro you have built up with them. After the charge, they come right back to you, but the clothies end up hurt, and 2-3 charges (while everyone is feared), can kill low-stamina healers. Avian Warhawks can be hibernated, and should be if it's possible. If you can't CC the Warhawks, kill them when you can and tell your clothies that they need to wear more stamina and self-heal where possible. There is no way for you to prevent the charge from happening.

On WoWWiki, it does not list Time-Lost Shadowmages as having a similar attack to the Avian Warhawks, but from personal experience, I believe they do. It's a sort of Shadowbolt volley that they turn away from the MT to cast on random party members (or maybe 2nd on their aggro list). I've watched them cast at me, turn to Shadowbolt Volley, and then turn back to me. Fortunately (or unfortunately if you don't have a priest healing), they are undead and can be shackled. Also, a priest's shadow resist buff or your own shadow resist aura helps with these. Again, I don't think you can prevent the damage they do to clothies.

So the reason your healer dies (and wipes the group) towards the end of Sethekk Halls is a combination of unpreventable damage from Avian Warhawks, Time-Lost Shadow Mages, and the ghosts that spawn when Sethekk Prophets die. You either need some extra CC to handle these mobs, or your clothies need to stop to self heal any time they're hurt. They might also try stacking some more stamina gear.

In general, everyone needs to play a little more skillfully towards the end of this instance. You can't make up for other people being careless or ignorant about the instance mobs here. The entire group has to learn how the instance works.

Evangelina wrote:I guess I left a bad impression of the tankadin(that are very very rare on my server)...priest was very happy to schakle, cause at the beginning I told him it was unnecessary...


From Mana Tombs on, you're going to start running instances that you will not finish. Black Morass, Auch Crypts and Shadow Labs are all examples of instances where you have to learn them before you can tank them reliably. The important thing to do is tell everyone you're still learning the instance (and do so, via this forum and instace guides) and that you'd like to try it again after you read up some more.

Everytime I have a bad instance run, I leave frustrated and upset (and I feel that I've dissapointed my guild mates). Then I go do some research, come up with new strategies, and run back to convince them to head right back in to the evil, death-trappy instance. We usually do much better on subsequent runs. Just pay attention when you're doing badly, figure out what you can change (more CC, less CC, different kill order, swap out gear, pulling to different locations, using potions, etc.), laugh a bunch and try again. Outlands level 66+ instances are just training you for Heroics and raiding, where wipes are pretty much guaranteed (until you outgear the instances and know them very intimately).

Good luck!
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Postby Metrodin » Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:41 pm

If you need to shackle then do it, but otherwise go with what works for you.

I like having either a priest or shammy healing for Fear Ward or Tremor Totem (or as I liked to call it on my shammy the Lotto Totem, you never know when you'll get lucky and it'll tick).

Priority kills for me are the Controllers because of MC, then the Prophets for the fear, then Shadowmages, then Shamans.
The melee stick to me like glue, and i find the Owls charges are largely inconsequential, charging random party members or not.
The ghosts when a Prophet dies are merely upgraded versions of the ones in ST, if the healer is getting caught by them then they should be moving out of the way.

If you do run with a shaman putting down Tremors, make sure that you stand exactly on the totem, this will ensure that you will have the maximum area of effect to give the totem time to tick (5 second cooldown between pulses ftl)

I run with without CC myself, usually because i have a Resto Shammy (Earth Shield ftw), or a Priest + Shadow Priest combo.
As long as your Incoming HPS is greater than your Incoming DPS you'll be fine.
eg. last night my incoming dps was 435 but the healer and the shadowpriest gave me an incoming HPS of ~330 +~130 respectively.

Healers not used to Tankadins can get nervous when they see you hit red health. They sometimes have a hard time remembering that Ardent Defender is kicking in at 35%.
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Postby Lalecize » Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:59 pm

Ahh I love this instance...

I tanked it at your level fine with no CC, but there are a few tricks.

1) Your Healer. If they have fear ward use it, if they have tremor totem use it.

2) The mobs. Most of the mobs are fine except the prophets (fearers). If there is only one of them in a pack, pop a skull on its head and tell your group to nuke it. Use your hammer of wrath (stun) on it as it reaches you.

If there are 2 in a set, get a mage to sheep or use some other form of CC. Whent he other mobs are dead toss ur shield at it again, which stuns it. Don't run at it straight away, wait for it to cast a fear. The fear usually pops as soon as the poly is broken so by letting it loose for a split second away from the party it will cast the fear effecting no one.
If you don't have the cast bars showing turn them on via interface options.

For the Time Lost controllers simply tell the dps to switch to totems if they see them. You get a good 5 seconds to nuke the totem before it mind controls someone.

Overall most instances are fine with no CC so far (fresh 70 here doing the normal 5 mans).

Theres no shame with popping a sheep on some fearing mobs :D
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Postby Kelemvor » Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:39 am

Am I the only one here that hates Sethekk Halls heroic mode? I'll never go there again...
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Postby fudomyou » Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:00 am

Kelemvor wrote:Am I the only one here that hates Sethekk Halls heroic mode? I'll never go there again...


I'm fine with it, especially when it drops wonderful mounts (never go without a druid). Would you like to expand on why you hate it? Is it fear, or the shadowmages, or...?
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Postby gworroll » Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:57 am

Kelemvor wrote:Am I the only one here that hates Sethekk Halls heroic mode? I'll never go there again...


I like Heroic Sethekk. Fairly easy IMO. A few spots where pulls can be a little touchy if your timing is off, and you really need to pull the fear mobs way back, but I like the place.
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Postby Athon » Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:16 am

gworroll wrote:
Kelemvor wrote:Am I the only one here that hates Sethekk Halls heroic mode? I'll never go there again...

I like Heroic Sethekk. Fairly easy IMO. A few spots where pulls can be a little touchy if your timing is off, and you really need to pull the fear mobs way back, but I like the place.

I did my first heroic Sethekk Halls run yesterday. I enjoyed it quite much, but it definitely seems that a good CC is needed here. We had two priests (holy and shadow), a warlock and a mage. I didn't AOE tank much here.

I wouldn't go there without a druid anymore, though, because you only get two badges from the run if you can't summon the extra boss.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:54 am

Athon wrote:
gworroll wrote:
Kelemvor wrote:Am I the only one here that hates Sethekk Halls heroic mode? I'll never go there again...

I like Heroic Sethekk. Fairly easy IMO. A few spots where pulls can be a little touchy if your timing is off, and you really need to pull the fear mobs way back, but I like the place.

I did my first heroic Sethekk Halls run yesterday. I enjoyed it quite much, but it definitely seems that a good CC is needed here. We had two priests (holy and shadow), a warlock and a mage. I didn't AOE tank much here.
Same. You will need 1 to 2 ccs early on(Shackle is godly), but on the 2 last rooms... you will proably need any CC you can spare. Controlling the fearers and the undead(those bastards either MC or nuke someone with a shadow uzi)
Oracles must be faced away from the party, and the owls are plain bastards. Stun the Shadowmage(the one with a shadow Uzi) once he starts shooting and it should be cool.

I did the heroic 3 times so far, Hunter mage and priest healer. They all had bad experiences with those pairs of guards you can't cc, and hit like 7 trucks together each. They were already planning ways to kite one of them, and asked me to blow LoH on the first guard while the other was kited..Can you imagine it? I said "Screw it" and tanked both together. Made them happy.


When you hear a paladin say "CC is a crutch", slap him with a pineapple, for he's not really considering situations where you need it. Specially in the learning stages, Crowd Control IS good and on mobs that can silence/fear/summon or any other annoying mechanic, you will very likely use CC on them.
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Postby Equitas » Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:21 am

There are instances where you just "in the word of a very smart man have to teach your cat to spam consecrate while you watch TV" and then there are those where you have to focus.

You cant always have a mage/schaman or whatever, although certain setups are ALWAYS handy.

If you have a rogue sap the prophets once you learn to pull with Avengers shield correctly you can slap it in their face while the mob is sapped without hitting him.
Schamans Tremor totem is helpful, fearward is useless as you will be feared multiple times.

When youre feared the priest or whoever should dispell you INSTANTLY, that is very important, keep consecrate and holy shield up at all times.

If not get more spelldmg, if that doesnt work try an alternative strategy, if you have a mobpack of 4-5 mobs try controlling at least one of them, tell dps to BURN down the Prophet add, just use taunt to get it back and in the meantime you should have enough aggro to tank the others.

I ran manatombs and Sethek when i was 66. The packs with good controll and pulling arent hard, the endboss is :P

Good luck
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Postby Makaijin » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:00 pm

Talking of the last boss, that place gave me nightmares the other night in heroic mode. Not because he was hard, but because the way RD works. People were still hiding behind the pillars across the room after his AE, and I had huge problems taunting the boss because the friendlies were out of LoS from me. In the end I had everyone including ranged to stand near me. So whenever he teleports before his AE, he would teleport nearby, just so everyone naturally ran behind the same pillar as I did, and not across the room.
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Postby Evangelina » Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:09 pm

I tried something new for the last boss, not in heroic though.
Actually I'm tanking him where the last group of trashs was. The other members stay in the previous room. When he uses his aoe we just have to hide behind the wall or in the corner if he teleports in the other room. The great thing is that everyone is in the same place so the healer can heal everyone during his aoe. I'm not sure but the hunter in my party told me he could even LoS the sheep. Don't go too far in the previous room or you'll reset the boss If I remember.
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Postby Triglav » Wed Feb 06, 2008 7:12 am

I've done this heroic last week as a daily quest.

After the first boss there's different type of birds in those packs which charge randomly and hit twice for 2k each on cloth.
I get always these birds sheeped and aoe tank the rest without any CC.
Focus fire undead mobs first, since two types of those put the MCing totem.
In case there's 2+ undeads, I usually fear one right after pull with AS.

We finished the instance without a single death (mage, destro lock, enh shamy and holy pala) with one feared-ninja pull of two packs.

GL, it's fun and a nice instance. ;)
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