Prince in Kara

Attumen, Moroes, Maiden, Opera, Curator, Illhoof, Aran, Netherspite, Chess, Prince, Nightbane

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Postby jere » Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:53 am

Sthallas wrote:
Maranus wrote:You shouldn't need to. If you're getting spiked down, either your gear sucks and you're slack, or the healers are slack.

But the point to disengaging is that if you have an issue with the above you can compensate for it by ... disengaging! 8)


I think his point is if you are properly geared for prince, you shouldn't ever have to disengage. Whether you agree with that or not is certainly up for debate. I personally think that kara offers enough gear pre prince/nightbane to tank Prince effectively without disengaging on a stable/repeatable basis as I did this just fine and well before the Combat Expertise addition. I am not saying there is anything wrong with disengaging, but I have never seen the need for it with Prince. However, I had farmed all the other tank gear save the legs off of curator by the time we decided to go after Prince.
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Postby Sthallas » Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:18 pm

jere wrote:I think his point is if you are properly geared for prince, you shouldn't ever have to disengage. Whether you agree with that or not is certainly up for debate. I personally think that kara offers enough gear pre prince/nightbane to tank Prince effectively without disengaging on a stable/repeatable basis as I did this just fine and well before the Combat Expertise addition. I am not saying there is anything wrong with disengaging, but I have never seen the need for it with Prince. However, I had farmed all the other tank gear save the legs off of curator by the time we decided to go after Prince.


Read below, I couldn't have stated it better myself...

Yeti wrote:Disengaging may or may not help, but some have reported a benefit, likely because they and/or their group was borderline for attempting Prince gear-wise.

You should not disengage if there is any danger of you losing #1 on the threat list, or if your dps is forced to hold back due to your decreased threat. A prolonged fight means healers oom and more infernals to deal with.

Your threat generation will likely be reduced 30-40% if you disengage.

With good proactive healers and good gear, you really do not need to disengage. But if you are dying to a string of attacks, maybe it will help. Because the idea behind disengaging is to eliminate a random event (parry/thrash string) it may or may not ever come into play.


Personally, I don't disengage but I always recommend it to new tankadins that are still gearing up as a way to mitigate some of the spike damage in P2 until they and/or their healers are comfortable enough to just push through it.
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Postby jere » Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:47 pm

Again, the point he was making (I think) was that when you engage prince, it should be at a point where you geared enough to not worry about needing to disengage.

Sure, if you are trying him well before your group is ready gear wise, I would say go ahead and disengage, but honestly, I feel it is better to get every scrap of dps on him you can, including your own, because the real problem with the fight is killing him before the infernals eventually get you, not him killing you instantly (unless of course, your gear is not ready) in phase 2 (again assuming the right gear/etc.)
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Postby Invisusira » Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:26 pm

Aye, you need to burn thru stages 2 and 3 as quickly as you can.

If you're disengaged , I don't care HOW much damage your exorcism is doing, your DPS is not at its maximum potential.
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Postby guillex » Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:00 pm

Invisusira wrote:Aye, you need to burn thru stages 2 and 3 as quickly as you can.

If you're disengaged , I don't care HOW much damage your exorcism is doing, your DPS is not at its maximum potential.


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Postby Zeels » Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:04 pm

I my guild we have 3-4 dps:ers that are 600-800 dps, and they don't catch up when I disengage.

But yeah I can imagine when they pick up some t5 things will be different.

I like to think our dps is great... We down prince in about 4 mins, feels fast at least.
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Postby GothicPL » Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm

Zeels wrote:I my guild we have 3-4 dps:ers that are 600-800 dps, and they don't catch up when I disengage.

But yeah I can imagine when they pick up some t5 things will be different.

I like to think our dps is great... We down prince in about 4 mins, feels fast at least.


For my kill, I dropped JoC on Prince, didn't disengage, didn't switch to Sun Eater, kept threat rotations (I had to use a mana pot during phase 1) and I still had a warlock (882 sp dmg, 42/0/19, mix of Kara and Gladiator gear) and a DPS warrior (1676AP 32.36% melee crit, 33/28/0, mostly PvP gear) pretty close to my threat (all other DPS were behind, we had a mix of well geared and undergeared DPS.)

I believe things have changed recently, and the original advice of ~200 sp dmg for Kara needs to be revised upwards.

DPS classes are much easier to gear up now with all the new PvP gear released in 2.3 (Vindicator's pieces are particularly overpowered - S3 level gear purchasable with honor is sick), and I find it harder to maintain my threat in Kara and heroics - spell damage of 200 doesn't cut it any more, so D3, T4 pieces and spell damage enchants and buffs are more valuable than before.

My advice would be:
1. If you have reasonably geared DPS and good healers (preferably capable of keeping HoTs up to soften spike damage), use a sp dmg weapon and don't disengage.
2. If your healers are lacking, but DPS is good, use a spell damage weapon and disengage.
3. If your DPS is undergeared/underskilled across the board, use Sun Eater/King's Defender and disengage, but make sure healers don't pass your threat.

Obviously, you can make this kind of a decision on the fly by just watching Omen/KTM.
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