Leotheras Transitions

Hydross, Lurker, Leotheras, Fathom-Lord, Tidewalker, Vashj

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Postby bighammar » Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:03 pm

how do you guys deal with resists on judgments and missed AS? we've had 2 nights so far. the first night i didn't have many noticeable issues with resists and misses, but that might have been because we were learning and i didn't notice because i was chasing him around. we got him to 31%. the next night we got him down to 20%, but i noticed on many occasions that i was getting incredibly bad strings of resists. like, WW... AS miss, JoR resist (8 seconds of pwning healers) JoR resist ... hunter finally redirects enough aggro. our shaman is currently in finals, so he hasn;t been around to leave searing totems around.

there was also also a straight start of fight PULL where i lost aggro when my JoR was resisted and my shield missed (which made the whirlwind even less fun). i know i'm light on SD, but on that fight i'm sitting at over 300 w/o flask, it can't be that much of an issue, can it?

JoV on the demon form is a really good idea, i'll be doing that next time unless i have to deal with a demon.

i've added spell hit to my gloves, but i'm not seeing what else i can do to get this bastard on time every time.

edit: armory: http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/chara ... =bighammar
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Postby adese » Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:29 am

Keep in mind that AS is affected by hit mechanics, not spell hit. While increasing your spell hit will help your JoR to land, it will do nothing for AS.

Do you have 3/3 Precision? The +3% hit and spell hit could really help.

Basically, it sounds like you had a really nasty string of bad luck. :(
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Postby Tekkel » Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:28 am

I've had cases where this happened too and had a hard time regaining aggro. Now I've made me a set with 13% spellhit, 491 defense and 103%. I'll see how it works tonight. But I'm running around 600 spelldamage on that fight and it doesn't help to have more it seems. U just need to avoid misses and resists.
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Postby YoYoMa » Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:29 am

Searing totem is probably the best backup. Otherwise make sure hunters are ready to MD in case. As long as DPS is still holding off you should be good hopefully. But yeah, it sounds like you just had a nasty string of bad luck :?
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Postby bighammar » Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:56 pm

YoYoMa wrote:Searing totem is probably the best backup. Otherwise make sure hunters are ready to MD in case. As long as DPS is still holding off you should be good hopefully. But yeah, it sounds like you just had a nasty string of bad luck :?


yeah, a part of it is certainly DPS. we've had trouble with them keeping aggro on the demon phase transition over our lock tank as well. and we do have hunters MDing on me. i just really hate tossing the shield and seeing it whang off when i've already started backpeddling towards where i usually tank him. or seeing a judgment resist when that shield fails. i have precision.
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Postby Gracerath » Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:39 pm

Also if you are alliance, try to get a stack of SoV on him. Follow him around when he whirlwinds and do your best to refresh the stack. Sometimes its impossible, sometimes he'll stand right next to you and not move for 5 seconds, just do your best. Having that ticking damage after the whirlwind phase helps regain aggro. If you are horde, be judging your seal of blood since it can't miss.

I tend to save my AS for when I can't refresh my SoV stack and he's way way out of range for a JoR.

Remember, its the dps's job to be watching theirs and your threat before they unload. If they are pulling aggro, they are the ones fucking up, not you. (Well, most of the time :P )
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Postby YoYoMa » Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:35 am

Personally, I never use SoV for WW transitions only because I'm trying to burst threat as soon as I grab him and SoV takes too long to build. I do use it coming out of demon to human form though.

But for WWs, we have the searing totem up as the first line of backup. I start casting my shield toss with about 1 second till he comes out of WW. If that hits I have him. If it misses the totem usually picks him up unless for some reason it's out of range. If both fail I quickly call out for a MD from the hunter. However, as soon a I see my shield miss I start running towards him so I can concecrate + SoR regardless if the totem is gonna help or the MD. Worst case I've had him gib one of the overzealous dpsers but that would be about it.
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Postby Gracerath » Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:27 pm

Personally, I never use SoV for WW transitions only because I'm trying to burst threat as soon as I grab him and SoV takes too long to build. I do use it coming out of demon to human form though.


It should be fairly obvious but I didn't write it the first time. After a WW, you judge your SoV. Its more damage than JoR plus you have a dot ticking just in case he gets away from you at the beginning for extra protection. I usually have enough time to build a respectable stack of 3-5 before he whirlwinds so its not a big issue most of the time. Then of course there are those times that you'll swing for the whole timer and not get one proc >< Just seal up righteousness and proceed like normal.

Those searing totems really are a godsend though :)
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Postby YoYoMa » Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:31 pm

No, I know you are talking about judging as he comes out for the big burst. I just never had a threat issue with JoR. I'd lay a concecrate with about 2 seconds left and then JoR as he transitioned.

Plus I seem to get inner demon about 1/2 the time (he really likes me) so rather than worry about it I just stay consistant.

But yeah, if given the opportunity and threat is an issue, JoV is better if you build the stack up.
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Postby arie » Tue Jan 01, 2008 1:47 am

I think that leo is best done with 2 tanks on the human phase as it reduces the chance for bad luck(avenger's shield/shieldslam missing :p) Tanking his human form really benefits from having a good warrior tanking at your side. For each demon->leo transformation, prepping consecration and holy shield and a judgement of blood with high spell damage could only pull him off our imba warrior 50% of the time. Avenger's shield with all else will pull him from any warrior however.. you will have it on cooldown for the first whirlwind which is where it is needed most. I found that letting the warrior get him from demon->leo then i grab him after the first whirlwind with avenger's+judge worked best.

I also tried the demon phase once with my FR gear. The lock in FR gear could keep aggro enough but died often to unlucky resists and lower hp. I had more hp with FR gear, but less threat generation than our warlock ofcourse. It somehow worked well as the lock could soulshatter if he got too many debuffs and i would take over, and i could bubble if i got too many.
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Postby kalbear » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:38 pm

A side note - if you're not alliance, a good way to ensure a decent amount of non-missable aggro is to judge blood in addition to AS. It won't be as good as SoR for threat but it'll still be something and will hit if AS doesn't.
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Postby lethario » Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:25 am

I'm not seeing anything about a threat table for Leo DURING the whirlwind.

We're headed back to work on him tonight, and I anticipate a kill. The trick for us will be not dying to the whirlwind, or having him off chasing someone out of LoS.

I think we have the impression that doing stuff can get you aggro and hit during the whirl. In the past the strat has gone with a 'no power gains' mandate during the entire whirlwind. No dps, no heals, no pots, nada.

If I'm interpreting everything correctly, he doesn't really have a threat table during the whirlwind and therefore we can keep up the dps and heals and just have people run away if/when he targets them.

So - does he have any threat table during the whirlwind or not?
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Postby jere » Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:48 am

lethario wrote:I'm not seeing anything about a threat table for Leo DURING the whirlwind.

We're headed back to work on him tonight, and I anticipate a kill. The trick for us will be not dying to the whirlwind, or having him off chasing someone out of LoS.

I think we have the impression that doing stuff can get you aggro and hit during the whirl. In the past the strat has gone with a 'no power gains' mandate during the entire whirlwind. No dps, no heals, no pots, nada.

If I'm interpreting everything correctly, he doesn't really have a threat table during the whirlwind and therefore we can keep up the dps and heals and just have people run away if/when he targets them.

So - does he have any threat table during the whirlwind or not?


I am sure he has a threat table of some type, but it is random at best and not something you can control. So you can safely dps during the whirlwind, but should stop right before it ends. Also, if he is targetting you, you should not be dpsing, you should be running away so he gives up on you and goes after someone else.
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Postby Jensaarai » Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:54 am

lethario wrote:I'm not seeing anything about a threat table for Leo DURING the whirlwind.

We're headed back to work on him tonight, and I anticipate a kill. The trick for us will be not dying to the whirlwind, or having him off chasing someone out of LoS.

I think we have the impression that doing stuff can get you aggro and hit during the whirl. In the past the strat has gone with a 'no power gains' mandate during the entire whirlwind. No dps, no heals, no pots, nada.

If I'm interpreting everything correctly, he doesn't really have a threat table during the whirlwind and therefore we can keep up the dps and heals and just have people run away if/when he targets them.

So - does he have any threat table during the whirlwind or not?


Well, there's your problem. No, there's no threat table during the whirlwind. He picks someone at random, chases them, hits them with the ww dot if he does get to them, if he can't get to them after a few seconds he chooses someone else. But by all means you CAN dps, you NEED to heal (the people with the ww dots), you can pot, whatever...just make sure, 5ish seconds before the WW ends you call STOP DPS, and they wait until you pick him up after the WW ends...healers also have to make sure they're not landing a huge crit heal directly after the WW ends or yes, at that point they WILL draw aggro.
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Postby lethario » Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:57 am

Thanks Jens, that helps a ton.
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