Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby theckhd » Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:39 am

Here's what we get if we instead clone the TopDPS trinkets to the other sets:
Image

And here's what happens if I use what seems like it should be the best combo: Horn of Screaming Spirits (STR) + Blast Furnace Door (Bonus Armor):
Image

So, in short, it looks like the mastery>haste strategy didn't actually pan out. It was mostly artificial variation caused by trinket combinations, not a reflection of overall gearing strategy. It's curious that the brute force method "missed" this - you'd think that the dominant trinket pairs would have emerged, provided they existed in the sample set. That said, this is one difficulty with brute-force methods when you're optimizing with respect to multiple metrics.

Take-home message: stick to stacking mastery on gear, and swap trinkets around for DPS. I'm going to use AMR's new L100 feature to put together the ideal baseline set (using stat weights calculated with one of these sets) and add it to these sims just to see how that fares. Once I nail down the base gear set, what I do think I'd like to brute force is trinket combos just to see if there's anything we missed.
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby theckhd » Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:49 am

A little bit of work with AMR (okay, more than a little, it didn't have the ring and doesn't appear to value set bonuses) got me here:
Image
Belt is the only thing it successfully changed (Uktar's instead of Ironcrusher's). The other changes were manual: AMR_4P uses T17 shoulders instead of gloves, while AMR_4POSS uses T17 gloves and off-set shoulders. As you can see, it's basically a toss-up for those two (well within DPS error). AMR_2P comes out a little ahead in DPS but behind in TMI.

So, looks like the rule of thumb is still "Stack the hell out of Bonus Armor and Mastery." I'll use AMR_4P as a base to test trinkets.
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby viperjason » Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:14 am

Do you mind posting the setup you are using for AMR and the others? One thing I want to remind is that my setups do not have any enchants on them and that makes a large difference. I stripped the enchants from AMR_4P_HoSS_BFD and replaced the crafted ring with the legendary so that all items were 695+ and got the following:

Code: Select all
head=helmet_of_guiding_light,id=115568,bonus_id=567
neck=choker_of_bestial_force,id=113952,bonus_id=567
shoulders=overdriven_spaulders,id=113990,bonus_id=567
chest=battleplate_of_guiding_light,id=115566,bonus_id=567
waist=ironcrushers_collar,id=113950,bonus_id=567
legs=legplates_of_guiding_light,id=115569,bonus_id=567
feet=sabatons_of_fractal_earth,id=113936,bonus_id=567
wrists=bracers_of_martial_perfection,id=113871,bonus_id=567
hands=gauntlets_of_guiding_light,id=115567,bonus_id=567
finger1=razoredge_blade_ring,id=113908,bonus_id=567
finger2=spellbound_runic_band_of_elemental_invincibility,id=118308,bonus_id=567
trinket1=horn_of_screaming_spirits,id=119193,bonus_id=567
trinket2=blast_furnace_door,id=113893,bonus_id=567
back=gronnstitched_greatcloak,id=113873,bonus_id=567
main_hand=kromogs_brutal_fist,id=113927,bonus_id=567
off_hand=kromogs_protecting_palm,id=113926,bonus_id=567
name=TopTMI_HoSS_BFD

head=hardened_greathelm,id=113910,bonus_id=567
neck=gluttons_kerchief,id=113882,bonus_id=567
shoulders=pauldrons_of_guiding_light,id=115565,bonus_id=567
chest=battleplate_of_guiding_light,id=115566,bonus_id=567
waist=uktars_belt_of_chiming_rings,id=113976,bonus_id=567
legs=legplates_of_guiding_light,id=115569,bonus_id=567
feet=sabatons_of_fractal_earth,id=113936,bonus_id=567
wrists=bracers_of_visceral_force,id=119331,bonus_id=567
hands=gauntlets_of_guiding_light,id=115567,bonus_id=567
finger1=seal_of_unquenchable_flame,id=113922,bonus_id=567
finger2=spellbound_runic_band_of_elemental_invincibility,id=118308,bonus_id=567
trinket1=horn_of_screaming_spirits,id=119193,bonus_id=567
trinket2=blast_furnace_door,id=113893,bonus_id=567
back=gronnstitched_greatcloak,id=113873,bonus_id=567
main_hand=kromogs_brutal_fist,id=113927,bonus_id=567
off_hand=kromogs_protecting_palm,id=113926,bonus_id=567
name=TopDPS2TMI_HoSS_BFD

head=helmet_of_guiding_light,id=115568,bonus_id=567
neck=choker_of_bestial_force,id=113952,bonus_id=567
shoulders=pauldrons_of_guiding_light,id=115565,bonus_id=567
chest=battleplate_of_guiding_light,id=115566,bonus_id=567
waist=uktars_belt_of_chiming_rings,id=113976,bonus_id=567
legs=legplates_of_guiding_light,id=115569,bonus_id=567
feet=sabatons_of_fractal_earth,id=113936,bonus_id=567
wrist=bracers_of_martial_perfection,id=113871,bonus_id=567
hands=flamefury_gauntlets,id=113925,bonus_id=567
finger1=razoredge_blade_ring,id=113908,bonus_id=567
finger2=spellbound_runic_band_of_elemental_invincibility,id=118308,bonus_id=567
trinket1=horn_of_screaming_spirits,id=119193,bonus_id=567
trinket2=blast_furnace_door,id=113893,bonus_id=567
back=ravenous_greatcloak,id=113883,bonus_id=567
main_hand=kromogs_brutal_fist,id=113927,bonus_id=567
off_hand=absaloms_bloody_bulwark,id=113666,bonus_id=567
name=AMR_4P_HoSS_BFD

head=lavadipped_greathelm,id=113894,bonus_id=567
neck=gluttons_kerchief,id=113882,bonus_id=567
shoulders=pauldrons_of_guiding_light,id=115565,bonus_id=567
chest=battleplate_of_guiding_light,id=115566,bonus_id=567
waist=ironcrushers_collar,id=113950,bonus_id=567
legs=legplates_of_guiding_light,id=115569,bonus_id=567
feet=iron_bellow_sabatons,id=113961,bonus_id=567
wrists=bracers_of_visceral_force,id=119331,bonus_id=567
hands=gauntlets_of_guiding_light,id=115567,bonus_id=567
finger1=seal_of_unquenchable_flame,id=113922,bonus_id=567
finger2=spellbound_runic_band_of_elemental_invincibility,id=118308,bonus_id=567
trinket1=horn_of_screaming_spirits,id=119193,bonus_id=567
trinket2=blast_furnace_door,id=113893,bonus_id=567
back=gronnstitched_greatcloak,id=113873,bonus_id=567
main_hand=kromogs_brutal_fist,id=113927,bonus_id=567
off_hand=kromogs_protecting_palm,id=113926,bonus_id=567
name=TopDPS_HoSS_BFD

head=lavadipped_greathelm,id=113894,bonus_id=567
neck=gluttons_kerchief,id=113882,bonus_id=567
shoulders=pauldrons_of_guiding_light,id=115565,bonus_id=567
chest=battleplate_of_guiding_light,id=115566,bonus_id=567
waist=ironcrushers_collar,id=113950,bonus_id=567
legs=legplates_of_guiding_light,id=115569,bonus_id=567
feet=iron_bellow_sabatons,id=113961,bonus_id=567
wrists=bracers_of_visceral_force,id=119331,bonus_id=567
hands=gauntlets_of_guiding_light,id=115567,bonus_id=567
finger1=seal_of_unquenchable_flame,id=113922,bonus_id=567
finger2=spellbound_runic_band_of_elemental_invincibility,id=118308,bonus_id=567
trinket1=horn_of_screaming_spirits,id=119193,bonus_id=567
trinket2=tablet_of_turnbuckle_teamwork,id=113905,bonus_id=567
back=gronnstitched_greatcloak,id=113873,bonus_id=567
main_hand=kromogs_brutal_fist,id=113927,bonus_id=567
off_hand=kromogs_protecting_palm,id=113926,bonus_id=567
name=TopDPS

head=helmet_of_guiding_light,id=115568,bonus_id=567
neck=choker_of_bestial_force,id=113952,bonus_id=567
shoulders=overdriven_spaulders,id=113990,bonus_id=567
chest=battleplate_of_guiding_light,id=115566,bonus_id=567
waist=ironcrushers_collar,id=113950,bonus_id=567
legs=legplates_of_guiding_light,id=115569,bonus_id=567
feet=sabatons_of_fractal_earth,id=113936,bonus_id=567
wrists=bracers_of_martial_perfection,id=113871,bonus_id=567
hands=gauntlets_of_guiding_light,id=115567,bonus_id=567
finger1=razoredge_blade_ring,id=113908,bonus_id=567
finger2=spellbound_runic_band_of_elemental_invincibility,id=118308,bonus_id=567
trinket1=battering_talisman,id=113987,bonus_id=567
trinket2=blast_furnace_door,id=113893,bonus_id=567
back=gronnstitched_greatcloak,id=113873,bonus_id=567
main_hand=kromogs_brutal_fist,id=113927,bonus_id=567
off_hand=kromogs_protecting_palm,id=113926,bonus_id=567
name=TopTMI

head=hardened_greathelm,id=113910,bonus_id=567
neck=gluttons_kerchief,id=113882,bonus_id=567
shoulders=pauldrons_of_guiding_light,id=115565,bonus_id=567
chest=battleplate_of_guiding_light,id=115566,bonus_id=567
waist=uktars_belt_of_chiming_rings,id=113976,bonus_id=567
legs=legplates_of_guiding_light,id=115569,bonus_id=567
feet=sabatons_of_fractal_earth,id=113936,bonus_id=567
wrists=bracers_of_visceral_force,id=119331,bonus_id=567
hands=gauntlets_of_guiding_light,id=115567,bonus_id=567
finger1=seal_of_unquenchable_flame,id=113922,bonus_id=567
finger2=spellbound_runic_band_of_elemental_invincibility,id=118308,bonus_id=567
trinket1=blast_furnace_door,id=113893,bonus_id=567
trinket2=tablet_of_turnbuckle_teamwork,id=113905,bonus_id=567
back=gronnstitched_greatcloak,id=113873,bonus_id=567
main_hand=kromogs_brutal_fist,id=113927,bonus_id=567
off_hand=kromogs_protecting_palm,id=113926,bonus_id=567
name=TopDPS2TMI


Sim1:
Image

Each time I run them the TopDPS and TopDPS_HoSS_BFD change positions which makes sense because I'm doing only 10k sims. How many sims are required to minimize the fluctuations?
Sim2:
Image
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby theckhd » Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:45 am

Trinket stuffs:

There are 23 mythic trinkets that are relevant to us this tier. Note that this includes some agility or intellect ones which give effectively no primary stat bonus, but I've included them just in case.

Simming those with the basic AMR_4P gear set and a fake 10str trinket in the second slot gives the following results:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wiwsamj95tvlx ... .html?dl=0
Image
Image

There are two take-home messages from this sim.

1) There are a large swath of AGI and INT trinkets that aren't that interesting. All of them fall in the bottom section of both DPS and TMI plots. As such, we probably won't be chasing any of them, because none of them have a unique proc that makes them somehow superior to other options. If anything, you're better off with some of the stamina trinkets (PotE or PFS) than any of these AGI/INT options.

2) There's not a huge variation in TMI between the remaining trinkets (99k-102k), but a fair variation in DPS (21.5k to 22.7k). The major factor there seems to be whether it's a trinket with stamina, which gives no DPS contribution, or a trinket that gives a stat that benefits both DPS and survivability.

Blast Furnace Door comes out looking excellent in this comparison. It's one of the top trinkets for both DPS and TMI (3rd place in DPS, 4th in TMI) thanks to being a Bonus Armor trinket rather than Stamina (PotE/PFS/BT) or Strength(HoSS). Evergaze Arcane Eidolon is similarly good (2nd place DPS, 5th place TMI), since it's a mastery trinket with a bonus armor proc.

Based on these single-trinket results, the advice would be to use BFD+EAE, because they both excel in both categories. This is also nice since they're both clearly tank trinkets, so we wouldn't be competing for them with DPS. If you got your hands on a HoSS you could swap it in for more DPS, but it's hardly necessary. Having a Stmamina trinket to swap in for EAE might be useful for fights where you want a little more survivability and don't care about DPS.

If we ignore the AGI/INT trinkets, there's 66 combinations to consider, which I'm simulating now. More to come.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby theckhd » Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:58 am

viperjason wrote:Do you mind posting the setup you are using for AMR and the others? One thing I want to remind is that my setups do not have any enchants on them and that makes a large difference. I stripped the enchants from AMR_4P_HoSS_BFD and replaced the crafted ring with the legendary so that all items were 695+ and got the following:

I've already cleared out the simulate tab, but here's the report:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/i3ohju3ctvbqu ... .html?dl=0

I had to do a fair bit of hand-editing of the AMR profiles. For one, it doesn't have the legendary ring included, and you did. So I had to add that. I also had to strip the enchants as you did, and hand-choose which tier pieces to use.
Also note that I switched to Holy Shield for my profiles, as I think Empowered Seals is going to be a poor choice this tier compared to the other two talents. It may be worth re-running with Seraphim, but in my earlier tests (using your mixed-trinket setups) I got consistent results with all three L100 talents, so I don't think that has a large effect on the order of the results (though it should skew TMI towards high-mastery setups... but we already saw that happening anyway).

Here's the final profiles copy/pasted from the report's "Profile" section:

AMR_2P+HoSS+BFD:
Code: Select all
paladin="AMR_2P+HoSS+BFD"
level=100
race=blood_elf
role=tank
position=front
talents=0032223
glyphs=alabaster_shield/focused_shield/divine_protection
spec=protection

head=helmet_of_guiding_light,id=115568,bonus_id=567
neck=choker_of_bestial_force,id=113952,bonus_id=567
shoulders=overdriven_spaulders,id=113990,bonus_id=567
back=ravenous_greatcloak,id=113883,bonus_id=567
chest=battleplate_of_guiding_light,id=115566,bonus_id=567
wrists=bracers_of_martial_perfection,id=113871,bonus_id=567
hands=gauntlets_of_dramatic_blows,id=113906,bonus_id=567
waist=uktars_belt_of_chiming_rings,id=113976,bonus_id=567
legs=firestorm_legplates,id=113921,bonus_id=567
feet=sabatons_of_fractal_earth,id=113936,bonus_id=567
finger1=razoredge_blade_ring,id=113908,bonus_id=567
finger2=spellbound_runic_band_of_elemental_invincibility,id=118308,bonus_id=567
trinket1=horn_of_screaming_spirits,id=119193,bonus_id=567
trinket2=blast_furnace_door,id=113893,bonus_id=567
main_hand=kromogs_brutal_fist,id=113927,bonus_id=567
off_hand=kromogs_protecting_palm,id=113926,bonus_id=567


AMR_4P+HoSS+BFD
Code: Select all
paladin="AMR_4P+HoSS+BFD"
level=100
race=blood_elf
role=tank
position=front
talents=0032223
glyphs=alabaster_shield/focused_shield/divine_protection
spec=protection

head=helmet_of_guiding_light,id=115568,bonus_id=567
neck=choker_of_bestial_force,id=113952,bonus_id=567
shoulders=pauldrons_of_guiding_light,id=115565,bonus_id=567
back=ravenous_greatcloak,id=113883,bonus_id=567
chest=battleplate_of_guiding_light,id=115566,bonus_id=567
wrists=bracers_of_martial_perfection,id=113871,bonus_id=567
hands=gauntlets_of_dramatic_blows,id=113906,bonus_id=567
waist=uktars_belt_of_chiming_rings,id=113976,bonus_id=567
legs=legplates_of_guiding_light,id=115569,bonus_id=567
feet=sabatons_of_fractal_earth,id=113936,bonus_id=567
finger1=razoredge_blade_ring,id=113908,bonus_id=567
finger2=spellbound_runic_band_of_elemental_invincibility,id=118308,bonus_id=567
trinket1=horn_of_screaming_spirits,id=119193,bonus_id=567
trinket2=blast_furnace_door,id=113893,bonus_id=567
main_hand=kromogs_brutal_fist,id=113927,bonus_id=567
off_hand=kromogs_protecting_palm,id=113926,bonus_id=567


AMR_4POSS+HoSS+BFD
Code: Select all
paladin="AMR_4POSS+HoSS+BFD"
level=100
race=blood_elf
role=tank
position=front
talents=0032223
glyphs=alabaster_shield/focused_shield/divine_protection
spec=protection

head=helmet_of_guiding_light,id=115568,bonus_id=567
neck=choker_of_bestial_force,id=113952,bonus_id=567
shoulders=overdriven_spaulders,id=113990,bonus_id=567
back=ravenous_greatcloak,id=113883,bonus_id=567
chest=battleplate_of_guiding_light,id=115566,bonus_id=567
wrists=bracers_of_martial_perfection,id=113871,bonus_id=567
hands=gauntlets_of_guiding_light,id=115567,bonus_id=567
waist=uktars_belt_of_chiming_rings,id=113976,bonus_id=567
legs=legplates_of_guiding_light,id=115569,bonus_id=567
feet=sabatons_of_fractal_earth,id=113936,bonus_id=567
finger1=razoredge_blade_ring,id=113908,bonus_id=567
finger2=spellbound_runic_band_of_elemental_invincibility,id=118308,bonus_id=567
trinket1=horn_of_screaming_spirits,id=119193,bonus_id=567
trinket2=blast_furnace_door,id=113893,bonus_id=567
main_hand=kromogs_brutal_fist,id=113927,bonus_id=567
off_hand=kromogs_protecting_palm,id=113926,bonus_id=567



viperjason wrote:Each time I run them the TopDPS and TopDPS_HoSS_BFD change positions which makes sense because I'm doing only 10k sims. How many sims are required to minimize the fluctuations?

Only 10k as well for now, but the differences are large enough to be conclusive even with that many (DPS error of ~25). The reason you're seeing them swap places is because the DPS difference is less than that, meaning they're more or less equivalent. I honestly think trying to peg them more than that is sort of pointless anyway (that's about 0.1% DPS), because no fight actually matches our Patchwerk model well enough to give us that level of confidence in our predictive ability anyway.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby viperjason » Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:14 pm

theckhd wrote:Based on these single-trinket results, the advice would be to use BFD+EAE, because they both excel in both categories. This is also nice since they're both clearly tank trinkets, so we wouldn't be competing for them with DPS. If you got your hands on a HoSS you could swap it in for more DPS, but it's hardly necessary. Having a Stmamina trinket to swap in for EAE might be useful for fights where you want a little more survivability and don't care about DPS.


If a trinket has a "use" vs equip, do the sims take that into account? IE, do they "use" the trinkets on cooldown?
I'm liking the trinkets that the use provides armor or proc armor.
that would be:
Tablet of Turnbuckle Teamwork
Evergaze Arcane Eidolon

Plus it would be easy to get those since it wouldnt be a DPS trinket.
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby theckhd » Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:50 pm

Yes, the sim will automatically use it (you can check the HoSS+ToTT entry in the report below to see that line on the APL).

Trinket Pairings:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/j3djkn8dpxbnb ... .html?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wsd6bcwxwaqjh ... .html?dl=0

Not going to show images for all 64, just the top section of them:
Image
Image

On the DPS side, it's clear that HoSS, BFD, and EAE all do rather well. ToTT isn't too shabby either. As per earlier advice, having two of BFD/EAE/ToTT will give you exceptional DPS while using only tanking trinkets, and if you can pick up a HoSS to eke out that extra 100 DPS or so you can swap it in for the weaker of your two tanking trinkets.

For TMI, BFD+EAE is just off the bottom of this chart at 97k, as are BFD+HoSS (97k), BFD+ToTT (98k), and EAE+ToTT (99k). Swapping HoSS for either trinket tends to add about 1k to TMI. The part of the plot I'm showing is dominated by stamina trinket combinations (either stam/stam or one stamina plus another defensive trinket). So again, probably worth having at least one Stamina trinket to swap in, especially for magic-heavy fights. PotE seems like the ideal case since PotE performs really well with everything.

For the default profiles, I'm going with BFD+EAE.
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby viperjason » Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:29 pm

Thank you for the links to the HTML. I found the difference between your results and mine. Turns out fluffypillow was providing different DPS numbers.

Back on topic:
You are using holy shield but holy shield seems to perform worse than empowered seals or sera. Why the change to holy shield on these sims but the default had empowered seals?

Empowered seals vs Holy Shield
Image
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby theckhd » Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:21 pm

"Perform worse" in what sense? It's lower DPS for sure, but it's also better for TMI. And there are a number of factors that can change those rankings (ex: HS should be higher in AoE situations).

There's also arguably no reason to use Empowered Seals based on what we've seen in this thread. Seraphim is hands-down better in all situations, so if anything we should be comparing using Seraphim. Holy Shield just provides a nice test bed since it's passive while still being reasonably competitive. Especially while learning progression fights, it's useful to be able to focus your attention on learning the fight mechanics rather than micromanaging Seraphim or Empowered Seals. So I suspect a lot of people will run Holy Shield and then swap to Seraphim as they're getting closer to a kill (if the fight warrants it).
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby theckhd » Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:24 pm

Also, while I'm at it here's an updated L100 talent sim from last week with scale factor plots rather than simple numerical scale factors:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/h6eg9f9vaoay3 ... .html?dl=0
Image

That's with the old gear set, I'll probably re-run it this weekend with the new one and include plots and scale factor calculations in there for good measure (I'll be at a wedding, so plenty of free runtime).
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby viperjason » Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:13 pm

theckhd wrote:"Perform worse" in what sense? It's lower DPS for sure, but it's also better for TMI. And there are a number of factors that can change those rankings (ex: HS should be higher in AoE situations).

There's also arguably no reason to use Empowered Seals based on what we've seen in this thread. Seraphim is hands-down better in all situations, so if anything we should be comparing using Seraphim. Holy Shield just provides a nice test bed since it's passive while still being reasonably competitive. Especially while learning progression fights, it's useful to be able to focus your attention on learning the fight mechanics rather than micromanaging Seraphim or Empowered Seals. So I suspect a lot of people will run Holy Shield and then swap to Seraphim as they're getting closer to a kill (if the fight warrants it).


That actually makes sense. Do the passive until mechanics are learned.
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby Schroom » Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:13 am

Mh.. Do we have a glyph comparisson in this thread already? or did I just miss it?
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby ZorKesh » Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:57 am

Schroom wrote:Mh.. Do we have a glyph comparisson in this thread already? or did I just miss it?

not in this thread i think
viewtopic.php?p=737649#p737649 - found only this
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby Schroom » Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:12 am

yup, that's what i got as well. but I thought there was a simC comparison for DPS, for the glyphs. I must be wrong then... nonetheless It would be nice to see one :)
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby Fundus » Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:37 pm

Theck did post a dps glyph comparison with single/multiple targets here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=33705&start=165#p785467

That was a while back, but I can't think of anything off the top of my head that would have drastically changed the order of those results. Hope that helps.
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby theckhd » Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:08 am

Updated glyph stuff for L100:

1T: https://www.dropbox.com/s/j36h4gddtdsf4 ... .html?dl=0
Image
Image

2T: https://www.dropbox.com/s/hqrsbnddou9dj ... .html?dl=0
Image
Image

3T: https://www.dropbox.com/s/97zd0nrmk0a7p ... .html?dl=0
Image
Image

Short version:
Harsh Words is massive DPS gain, massive TMI loss.
Alabaster > Double Jeopardy (2+ targets) > Focused Shield (1 target) > Final Wrath for the rest of them.

Word of Glory is basically irrelevant since we're not using EF.
Battle healer is a TMI loss for dubious gain, but at least now you know exactly how much you give up.
Immediate Truth is pointless in here, but two quick sims suggest it's a loss of about 300 DPS. May still be a win on targets that don't live long enough to keep a 5-stack of Censure, but that's going to be awfully fight-specific. Very well could be a gain for leveling, however.
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby theckhd » Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:37 am

Also, assorted stuff, much of which has been covered in this thread, but some not:
http://www.sacredduty.net/2014/11/12/pa ... f-draenor/
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby Donatist » Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:11 am

Good morning. I ran a Sim on myself today. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/bleeding-hollow/Donatistduh/advanced The sim came up with max TMI as being Mastery=crit for me with DTPS having Crit ahead of mastery. Was wondering if there is some kind of artificial cap here at mastery?
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby theckhd » Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:30 am

No, you're using Seraphim. With Seraphim selected most of the usual secondaries are pretty close, with Versatility and Crit having a slight advantage. I discuss this (with plots) in some detail in the blog post linked above.
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby Jackinthegreen » Fri Nov 21, 2014 8:08 pm

Would there be value in a SimC thread over on MMO-C so that people can talk about changes, bugs, and what should be updated? Or would there not be a good enough signal to noise ratio for it to be worthwhile?

I got looking at the code and it seems there are several things that need to be tested. Other things need to be added like Denounce while some stuff like Divine Plea could be removed since it's no longer in the game.
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby ironsquid » Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:42 pm

Hey first time poster.

Been enjoying the WoD tanking experience. But I'd like to maybe get a confirmation on my playstyle.

I'm currently using a Resolve % aura to track when to use Bastion/WoG/Other Healing Talents strictly for challenge mode tanking. My thought process is that I should WoG under tank duress if my HP drops below 50-60% with over 100% resolve, regardless of bastion stacks. The resulting gameplay feels like Blood Tanking. Another scenario would be if I'm over 100% resolve but party is low, using Prism. Otherwise I'm pooling HP and spending on Shield. I'm using SoV at the pull during lust and switching to SoI after lust.

I'm also reapplying SS in between GCDs when I'm topped off, hoping to get hit during or shortly before the proc for min/max resolve usage.

Because of this playstyle (which I'm assuming is acceptable for tanking) would I value more DPS oriented stats like Str>Bonus Armor>Multi>=Mastery or should I try out Versatility for the extra self/group healing with Prism?

EDIT: Forgot to mention I'm using HS because I'm not comfortable with Seraphim yet. I'm not fond of AW because I miss the chain of DP procs.
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby theckhd » Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:43 pm

Jackinthegreen wrote:Would there be value in a SimC thread over on MMO-C so that people can talk about changes, bugs, and what should be updated? Or would there not be a good enough signal to noise ratio for it to be worthwhile?

I got looking at the code and it seems there are several things that need to be tested. Other things need to be added like Denounce while some stuff like Divine Plea could be removed since it's no longer in the game.


Sure, but I already have enough trouble keeping up with this thread, let alone having a second one on MMO-C. Plus, I think most of the people on MMO-C who are interested in looking at the code are already here, so it's probably redundant.

I haven't bothered updating Holy very much because there was someone else who said they'd take a crack at it. But I think they gave up.
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby theckhd » Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:53 pm

ironsquid wrote:I'm currently using a Resolve % aura to track when to use Bastion/WoG/Other Healing Talents strictly for challenge mode tanking. My thought process is that I should WoG under tank duress if my HP drops below 50-60% with over 100% resolve, regardless of bastion stacks. The resulting gameplay feels like Blood Tanking.


I think that this part of your play style is fairly suspect. WoG is pretty weak if you don't have 5 stacks of BoG and/or a lot of Resolve. You're probably better off sticking to SotR and using WoG only in emergencies (i.e. when you drop to 20% health).

In any event, strength and bonus armor are two of your top stats for a normal play style, it shouldn't be noticeably different if you're over-using WoG.
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby Finkum » Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:18 pm

I might be mistaken, but the tool-tip for Resolve suggests that it only increases healing/absorption for yourself, so Prism/Light's Hammer should heal your group members for the same amount regardless of what your Resolve % is.

Edit: And you seem to be saying that you try and re-apply SS at high Resolve %, which is pointless as the periodic absorb bubble uses whatever your Resolve % happens to be at the time it spawns.
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby Donatist » Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:35 am

Finkum wrote:I might be mistaken, but the tool-tip for Resolve suggests that it only increases healing/absorption for yourself, so Prism/Light's Hammer should heal your group members for the same amount regardless of what your Resolve % is.

Edit: And you seem to be saying that you try and re-apply SS at high Resolve %, which is pointless as the periodic absorb bubble uses whatever your Resolve % happens to be at the time it spawns.


You are right, the healing done with Prism/ Lights Hammer does not scale with your resolve when used as a raid CD. However, it does provide some healing and I know for me personally its saved a couple close calls on some of the aoe intense CM boss fights weve done.

In general though I find that we are much more dependent on our healers than previously which takes some getting used to. My first week in Heroics i learned that even if i played perfectly, if my healer was bad i could still die.
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