Politics (formerly Election 2012)

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Amirya » Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:30 pm

Just based on the quotes alone, I'm actually not seeing a problem (can't access the story at work). If the student wants to write God as the answer to all the chemistry questions, so what? It would still be wrong, based on what was being studied in chemistry class, and so the student wouldn't penalized for the religious content, but for an incorrect answer.

If a student wants to say their religion says that homosexuals are going to hell as sinners, again, so what? It's their (religious) opinion, it's not necessarily right, and they're entitled to their opinions. Opinions are legally protected, aren't they?

The problem would be when it crosses the line from making a statement about their opinion, and into harrassment.

And people who yell, "HARRASSMENT!" because someone states an opinion really, really, need to grow thicker skin, and grow up. (Emphasis on opinions)

I mean, just because I think blue eyed blondes are pretty doesn't make me a racist.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Kal » Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:20 pm

"...gay people are sinners and going to hell" It's an opinion, sure, and kind of a weak example of bullying. The thing is, the right to that opinion already exists. This isn't a case of "Your rights end where my feelings begin." This is a case of playing the victim card, first off, with the claim that religious beliefs are under attack. Secondly, it prevents school administrators from doing their jobs.

Here's how I see it, from a libertarian perspective: The government cannot give anyone rights; they can only take them away. In this case, it is the school administrator's and teacher's right to resolve conflicts between students in the way they see fit that is being infringed. Students already have the right to state their religious beliefs, and to protect it is redundant.

Still, it's the threat to science education I'm more concerned about. Being closeted all through school (and then the Army, wtf was I thinking?) wasn't as detrimental to my life so far as having been taught Young-Earth Creationism, along with a lot of lies about evolution.

P.S. For anyone interested in reading the text of these bills, check out factn.org. The website is actually in favor of the bill, but it's just the place I found the text in a google search.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:38 pm

Amirya wrote:Just based on the quotes alone, I'm actually not seeing a problem (can't access the story at work). If the student wants to write God as the answer to all the chemistry questions, so what? It would still be wrong, based on what was being studied in chemistry class, and so the student wouldn't penalized for the religious content, but for an incorrect answer.

If a student wants to say their religion says that homosexuals are going to hell as sinners, again, so what? It's their (religious) opinion, it's not necessarily right, and they're entitled to their opinions. Opinions are legally protected, aren't they?

The problem would be when it crosses the line from making a statement about their opinion, and into harrassment.

And people who yell, "HARRASSMENT!" because someone states an opinion really, really, need to grow thicker skin, and grow up. (Emphasis on opinions)

I mean, just because I think blue eyed blondes are pretty doesn't make me a racist.


I think the problem is the people will expect not to be penalized in a test for writing GOD...
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Amirya » Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:21 am

Ah, crikey.

This whole week at work has been full of amazingly stupid people (amazingly stupid), and now I realize I was being an optimist. "Surely someone wouldn't feel their rights were infringed on because they wrote the wrong answer on a science test." Then Klaud points out that, yes, they probably will, and I feel my brain hurt a little more. Which leads me to wonder, if someone wrote PURPLE on a mathematics test, and got it wrong, would they be expect to still get it right?

I'm getting mighty sick and tired of the stupid (which, unfortunately, is leading to bigger sarcasm than I probably should at work - but I mean, when I am confronted with, "well, when is that person going to call you?!" I think I am somewhat justified in responding with, "and you expect me to magically know this HOW?").

Ok, enough off topic ranting.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby KysenMurrin » Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:25 am

Just makes me think of Adam Sandler's character in Waterboy - where he goes to college and in the biology lesson answers questions with what his momma taught him, and gets into a big argument with the teacher about it.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Skye1013 » Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:34 am

Amirya wrote:Which leads me to wonder, if someone wrote PURPLE on a mathematics test, and got it wrong, would they be expect to still get it right?

By the same token... if someone of another faith believes that water comes from magical faeries... are they any more wrong than the person that believes it came from God? If one is protected, shouldn't the other be as well? Clearly, that's the logical stance to take, but the people backing these laws are rarely, if ever, logical.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Amirya » Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:42 am

This is true. If someone wrote Allah or Satan instead of God, I'm sure we can all just see the frothing ragers.

No joke, the education in the US is still terrible, and I deeply resent my taxes going to pay for public "education" when I will never use it, regardless of whether I adopt or not.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Kal » Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:55 pm

Amirya wrote:This is true. If someone wrote Allah or Satan instead of God, I'm sure we can all just see the frothing ragers.

No joke, the education in the US is still terrible, and I deeply resent my taxes going to pay for public "education" when I will never use it, regardless of whether I adopt or not.


As a point of fact, "Allah" is just the Arabic word for "God", so Arabic speaking Christians and Jews refer to God as Allah. You may already know this, but I just wanted to say that if this point were made in such a situation, said frothing rager's heads would explodify.

I disagree with your point about your tax dollars going toward public education. You benefit from living in a literate society, and though I'll agree all day that our education standards are abysmal, it's something that you do use.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Amirya » Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:04 pm

I look forward to the explodify. I welcome the chance to witness it!

Also, I would disagree with you about this being a literate society. Reality TV, softcore mommy porn, and other such idiotic endeavours by the masses don't really strike me as literate.

But I probably just have higher (and frequently disappointed) expectations. Which is also probably why I don't see any benefit from it. But more, I was talking in regards to sending my non-existent demon hellspawn - I would never do that. I'd either homeschool, or if I was rich enough, send them to a boarding school in a country that has much higher education standards.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Aubade » Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:08 pm

Amirya wrote:softcore mommy porn, and other such idiotic endeavours by the masses don't really strike me as literate.



I feel like I'm missing a reference or something, regarding this statement.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Amirya » Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:25 pm

50 Shades of Stupid.

I've got so many female coworkers around here who LOVE that book, but only 1 thought to suggest I should try reading it. The rest are, "uh, no way."
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Aubade » Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:33 pm

Amirya wrote:50 Shades of Stupid.

I've got so many female coworkers around here who LOVE that book, but only 1 thought to suggest I should try reading it. The rest are, "uh, no way."



ah gotcha, I had already forgotten about that craze. I thought you were referring to porn with moms, and I was gonna be like "woah, not my thing but I get why people are into it." Hahah
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Koatanga » Thu Mar 27, 2014 4:44 pm

I wonder if a student could detail the explicit sex and blood rituals of his satanic beliefs in class without fear of recrimination or even a bad grade. Or deliver a pro-terrorism-in-the-name-of-jihad speech. I wonder if the people promoting that law understand the kind of Pandora's Box they are opening.

I know the intent is to allow little bible-thumping Tommy to openly hate gays in class, but kids in high school hit that rebellious age and the smarter ones can get quite creative about it.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:34 pm

Koatanga wrote:I wonder if a student could detail the explicit sex and blood rituals of his satanic beliefs in class without fear of recrimination or even a bad grade. Or deliver a pro-terrorism-in-the-name-of-jihad speech. I wonder if the people promoting that law understand the kind of Pandora's Box they are opening.

I know the intent is to allow little bible-thumping Tommy to openly hate gays in class, but kids in high school hit that rebellious age and the smarter ones can get quite creative about it.


if I was in high school, i'd totally abuse the shit out of that law.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Amirya » Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:02 pm

So would I. And I would expect to be protected by law for demonstrating my satanic rituals too. Mostly the part about the ritual sacrifice of Easter the bunny.
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