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Politics (formerly Election 2012)

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Koatanga » Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:54 pm

Kal wrote:That sounds so very sarcastic, and when I say much the same, I'm sarcastic as well, but keep in mind, that was the prevailing philosophy concerning fossils for quite some time.

The difference between mainstream scientists and young-earth creationists is that when presented with evidence proving the fossils were in fact really old, mainstream scientists changed their philosophy.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:19 pm

KysenMurrin wrote:That's easy: God created the entire world exactly as it would be if it really had formed over millions of years in order to test our faith. Truth is, the entire universe was actually created last Tuesday, he just made everything - including our minds - in the exact state they needed to be in order to believe it'd been around for ages.


That's the omphalos hypothesis, also known as last thursdayism....
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Kal » Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:57 pm

Koatanga wrote:
Kal wrote:That sounds so very sarcastic, and when I say much the same, I'm sarcastic as well, but keep in mind, that was the prevailing philosophy concerning fossils for quite some time.

The difference between mainstream scientists and young-earth creationists is that when presented with evidence proving the fossils were in fact really old, mainstream scientists changed their philosophy.


You're preaching to the choir, though I suppose I should specify what I was getting at. I don't think it's ridiculous to believe in a old-looking young earth, when a creator is invoked and the Bible is interpreted literally. Anything powerful enough to create ex nihilo (which is a straw man anyway), would be powerful enough to create it any way they wished. As for whether it would be intended to be a "test of faith", that's also reasonable *if* one starts from scripture, which includes many tests of faith.

I laugh too, I really do, but I also acknowledge that I'm laughing at my teenage self.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby KysenMurrin » Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:08 pm

The thing about that idea is, it's impossible to disprove. For all we know it could be true, but if it is then we'd never know, because the deception would be perfect by definition. So for all intents and purposes it's entirely irrelevant and we needn't bother wasting time on it.

Edit: And now I remember this is the politics thread. Moving on!
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Amirya » Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:59 pm

Fetzie wrote:The Defias Brotherhood is back, and this time they are acting as racketeers in Goldshire. Anybody wishing to dance for money must now pay them protection money or be charged triple the normal amount when repairing.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Koatanga » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:31 pm

At least they can now discriminate against Mexicans on the basis that they're Catholic. Arizona's been wanting some reason to justify racial profiling for quite some time.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Koatanga » Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:05 pm

This is how seriously we take our politics in New Zealand:

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Sagara » Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:58 pm

Well at least he's got a sense of humor.
Not quite the same here in Belgium - our politicians ARE the humour by their very existence: see the current top 3 politicians are (drum roll)

A) the Gay Socialist, son of immigrants (Italians, but wathever), current Prime Minister (that apparently causes American Republicans to spontaneously burst in flames on contact). Got accused of homosexuality and pedophily back when he was up and coming and pedophily was tantamount to being the Devil reborn and homosexuality wasn't as accepted. His answer? "Why yes, I'm gay. That's all actually. Any other questions?"

B) The Separatist Liberal whose conservative views are highly regarded by the Flemish, and quite a bit less so by the rest of the country. He's an excellent leader and orator (or demagogist, depending on who your ask) and a very learned a-hole if you ask me, that got a bit of extra fame by nearly winning "De slimste mens ter wereld" a general knowledge TV competition. He has been straddling the line with the far right, but nothing damning sticks yet.

C) This lady that came completely out of left field as a token representative of one the smaller parties on the current government (could you imagine seriously fielding her as a figurehead for your party?). She was in charge with immigration and social integration when things went SNAFU and surprised everyone with willfull and efficient decisions that earned no small amount of fame. So basically, in one year's time, she went for political nobody to potential Prime Minister, despite looking FAR from the typical "political woman" image
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Koatanga » Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:21 pm

You want "political woman" image? Meet our former Prime Minister, and your future head of the UN, Helen Clark:

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Kal » Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:59 pm

KysenMurrin wrote:The thing about that idea is, it's impossible to disprove. For all we know it could be true, but if it is then we'd never know, because the deception would be perfect by definition. So for all intents and purposes it's entirely irrelevant and we needn't bother wasting time on it.

Edit: And now I remember this is the politics thread. Moving on!


Oh, I now know it's unfalsifiable. I just wasn't taught logic in school. I didn't read about Russell's Teapot until I was 22 years old.

I disagree with your implication that this isn't political. What we allow to be taught in schools is a very political subject, but newer, more interesting threads are developing, so yeah.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Koatanga » Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:46 pm

Kal wrote:Oh, I now know it's unfalsifiable. I just wasn't taught logic in school. I didn't read about Russell's Teapot until I was 22 years old.

I disagree with your implication that this isn't political. What we allow to be taught in schools is a very political subject, but newer, more interesting threads are developing, so yeah.

I agree that what's taught in schools is very relevant to a politics thread, because the politicos decide what gets taught.

What I am seeing:

Half of US Congressmen don't believe in global warming.
25% percent of people in a Newsweek poll said they don't believe in Evolution, while only 40% polled say do.
25% of Americans don't know the earth revolves around the sun.
Only 42% of young Americans (18-24) know Astrology is not at all scientific.
78% of Americans believe in Creationism or at least Intelligent Design.

And that's *without* that crap being taught in schools. Imagine if it was...
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Koatanga » Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:33 pm

So with the whole Arizona law allowing a business owner to discriminate based on is religious beliefs, is it OK to ask women if they are menstruating, since the bible forbids associating with a woman for 7 days during her period?
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:18 pm

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/defense-sec ... -benefits/

Fuck this guy. How bout he targets unnecessary purchases like those italian planes no one wants to fly and were sent straight to the junkyard some months ago, or the purchase of M1 Abrahms that the Army did not want?
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Kal » Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:10 am

OK, at first I was thinking "Holy crap, tone it down, how bad could it be?". Now I'm like "Holy shit! What the fucking fuck!?"

"The recommendations would limit pay raises across the board to 1 percent, and they would freeze pay entirely for generals and admirals for one year."

Anything less than a pay raise equal to or above the inflation rate (1.6% through 2013) is an effective pay cut. But never mind the pay, it's not that big of a deal.

In addition to reduced housing allowances, the recommendations would slash the subsidies for commissaries that provide groceries to veterans, service members, and their families at reduced cost.

Housing allowances, I could see getting a trim, if done judiciously. I know some locations are over funded. Still, no big deal.

The Commissary has always been a way to provide at-cost goods to soldiers. It's purpose has always been "Care for our own." That's what the DoD civilians that work there will say when asked why they work there. Written on the seal of the Defense Commissary Agency are the words "Quality First, People Always", a phrase reminiscent of the Sergeant's Motto "Mission First, Soldiers Always".

I'll unpack that distinction between "First" and "Always" for anyone who might not have heard this. There's a difference between priorities and values. We all have priorities in the morning before heading to work. Eating breakfast, showering, shaving, etc., but if we happen to be running late, some or all of these priorities get tossed aside because we instead prioritize being on time. But there's one thing we all do before walking out the front door, no matter how late we are. We put clothes on. We value modesty. Values never change.

Sergeants prioritize the mission and value our soldiers. It took me some time before I understood this myself, as I was worried I might have to decide between the two some day. That day never came, and I have never heard any other NCO ever relate any time they had to decide between completing the mission or taking care of soldiers. There is no conflict between the two.

Likewise, I see the Commissary say "Quality First, People Always", and I see quality as their mission, to bring us at-cost goods. I see people as their value, always. There is no conflict here.

Chuck Hagel used to be an NCO. He should understand this. This is the guy who gave back some of his pay when others were furloughed during the shutdown. This is the guy who is currently pushing the state National Guards to provide same-sex marriage benefits. This is just so out of the blue, I don't understand how anyone could be OK with this.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Nooska » Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:20 pm

Koatanga wrote:
Kal wrote:Oh, I now know it's unfalsifiable. I just wasn't taught logic in school. I didn't read about Russell's Teapot until I was 22 years old.

I disagree with your implication that this isn't political. What we allow to be taught in schools is a very political subject, but newer, more interesting threads are developing, so yeah.

I agree that what's taught in schools is very relevant to a politics thread, because the politicos decide what gets taught.

What I am seeing:

Half of US Congressmen don't believe in global warming.
25% percent of people in a Newsweek poll said they don't believe in Evolution, while only 40% polled say do.
25% of Americans don't know the earth revolves around the sun.
Only 42% of young Americans (18-24) know Astrology is not at all scientific.
78% of Americans believe in Creationism or at least Intelligent Design.

And that's *without* that crap being taught in schools. Imagine if it was...


On the upside, it could just be the US polling institutes that fail at math?
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