Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests Here)

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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Thels » Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:01 am

Mordred wrote:I finaly got my 2nd piece of Tier this weekend, but I had a question about it. Is the 2 piece bonus worth my 2% haste loss? It brings me from 43 to 41% haste.


2 piece is sort of ok. Depends on how often you spam Divine Protection. It's mostly a step on the way to get to 4 piece, though. I'd equip whichever of the two piece is higher ilvl. If they're the same and not upgraded yet, upgrade the Tier piece, since that's the one you'll be using eventually. If they're tied, it really depends on the stats they have, so hard to say.

Klaudandus wrote:http://www.wowhead.com/item=104821
http://www.wowhead.com/item=94508
http://www.wowhead.com/item=103989
http://www.wowhead.com/item=105111

Which of these should I keep?


Vial of Living Corruption is seriously good, so keep it equipped when you're tanking anything serious.

Alacrity of Xuen is annoying in that it gives you the Haste in such a big chunk instead of flattened out. I'm not sure of your current haste level, but it could place you seriously over the 50% "cap", which wastes most of the stats. In addition, a lot of players do not actually press buttons faster when they get random haste procs, as they're into a "rhytm", and if you don't either, then a random haste proc is not going to help you at all. The Strength does little for survivability.

That would make me advise Thok's Tail Tip as the second option. It does provide additional haste and mastery, which are survivability gains, and it's a decent boost to damage.

When you're not tanking anything serious, you could swap out Vial for something more DPS oriented. Since Brutal Talisman with it's expertise is hard to swap in, you can keep Alacrity as your DPS boost trinket.

Note that this advise assumes you have no issues hardcapping Expertise. If for whatever reason you are reforging or gemming expertise at the cost of Haste (not likely at current gear levels), then the Brutal Talisman would be a good option to keep around.

Kal wrote:3. I use AMR to get my reforge, choosing the medium stamina option, which results in using a few haste/stam gems, and heavy preference for stam trinkets. If I switched to high stamina, I would gain about 73k health (6.5% increase) while dropping 11.3% (down to 22.5%) haste. Is that a reasonable trade? I am getting some deaths from spike damage.


You can always Sim it, but that kind of assumes a perfect works. What Spike Damage is this? Is this Spike Damage that should have been mitigated through SotR? If so, no, more stamina is not likely to help you out more. Instead, more haste would more likely to save your butt, as you are faster back to the 3 HoPo after an emergency use. (You rotationally only spend HoPo when you're at 5, and have a generator coming off cooldown, so you can SotR/WoG, and then get yourself immediately back up to 3. Use of SotR/WoG during other times would be emergency use.) Naturally, that does require the player skill to match that decision, but if you're going heroics, that's a given.

If it's other random stuff, discuss it with your healers. Could it be prevented otherwise? Going for a slightly larger green bar can be the solution for your guild, but it's not a solo decision.

samsara wrote:hm, i wasn't sure about posting this question, it seems more like one of the "first world problems"-Memes

i got Thoks tailtip yesterday. When equiping thoks and zandalari trinket i will get >50% haste, but that will unequip vial , which i personaly find is a great trinket. I'm happy to have it, especialy on fights like blackfuse where it seems i have a DP on every bossenrage (when an add dies), which is great, or now on progressing klaxxi where it seems that you can't have enough cd's (... it's anyway allways tanks fault when whiping at 8-10 minutes of the fight and dps has taken all battlerezzes and everyone expect you to tank kilruk with xaril debuf when there is no br left for a tank... sure ) This fight is just no fun with 2 paladin tanks.

i have some sort of BIS-List where i can use thoks and Vial but for this i'm missing a few pieces of gear and i'm sure it will take some time to get garosh legs

would you stay with vial or just go with the 50% hastecap, or would you switch it fight dependent as it isn't a problem with hit/exp caps as both don't have hit/exp on it and wouldn't get reforged?


Unlike the Hit and Expertise caps, the 50% Haste "cap" is not an actual goal. It is not something we need to achieve, and actually not achieving it is better, as Haste above the 50% cap is a lot less useful than Haste below it, and you're not likely to get to exactly 21250 Haste Rating (after Thok's buff).

I'd run Vial and Thok, though Vial and Zandalari could work as well, depending on where your preference lies. If you're not tanking anything serious, then of course, have fun with Thok and Zandalari.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Jadhzia » Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:46 pm

Hello,

My paladin tank recently dropped Curse of Hubris (LFR). Should I use it to replace my old Soul Barrier?

Even though Mr. Robot gives a higher score to the Hubris, it doesn't feel right for a paladin, since we don't have anything benefiting from crit. I have enough valor points to upgrade one of the two trinkets. Should I equip and upgrade the Hubris anyway? Or keep the Barrier until I drop, for example, the trinket from the Protectors? I mostly play Flex mode with my guild.

Thanks for your input.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Thels » Mon Dec 30, 2013 5:53 pm

It's a 500 stamina upgrade, which is quite a lot. The on use effect of the Soul Barrier is not really impressive at all, it was merely interesting for the base stamina it held.

I'd definitely upgrade to the Curse of Hubris, until you find yourself a better alternative.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Kal » Tue Dec 31, 2013 8:24 am

@samsara, I'll suggest warcraftlogs to my guild, but I can't run it myself. My computer isn't up to that. Maybe the guy running WOL takes an interest, maybe not.

I have also heard some people call AMR noobish, but I think that's petty elitism. I think that even if a person was blindly following their default settings, they're on the right track towards improvement. My own consistent disagreement with it's recommendations is it's default to Windsong instead of Dancing Steel, which I prefer.

@Thels, the "more haste would more likely to save your butt" is exactly what I'm concerned about loosing, if I switch to stam gems. What I need to do is be able to definitively say when, how, and why I died, which I don't know how to glean from WOL, but I'm going to try Death Note again. That way I can say whether a death was from lack of heals (more stam) or lack of mitigation (more haste).

Skill-wise, I'm fairly good about using cooldowns and banking HoPo for emergencies. Of course, a thorough review of a log could prove otherwise, which is why I wish to step it up that way.

Thanks for all the feedback. Also, got LFR Vial last night to replace Soul Barrier. Not bad.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Thels » Wed Jan 01, 2014 5:00 am

Kal wrote:I have also heard some people call AMR noobish, but I think that's petty elitism. I think that even if a person was blindly following their default settings, they're on the right track towards improvement. My own consistent disagreement with it's recommendations is it's default to Windsong instead of Dancing Steel, which I prefer.


There are some annoying things, though. For example, you can't say how many tier pieces you're interested in. When I'm messing around with a BiS list on my DK, it sometimes gives me zero pieces, and sometimes gives me four pieces. There's a setting that you can lock pieces, but how do I know which four of the five slots to use a set item in?

It's ok, but there's room for improvement. I usually don't really bother with AMR, though I consider Reforge Lite invaluable.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Kal » Wed Jan 01, 2014 2:31 pm

If what one is doing is using such a tool to do the math, using one's own stat weights, overriding defaults, ect. that's what I mean by not noobish. Before using AMR I was using WoWReforge. It's just a calculator.

To get a 4 piece Tier + 1 off-set BIS out of AMR (granted one accepts their upgrade value judgement based on, again, one's own stat values plugged in) set all 5 tier pieces slotted, then look at each slot upgrade potential. I got off-set legs as the most significant upgrade, detailed in my normal mode BIS post.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Thels » Wed Jan 01, 2014 4:26 pm

But you must realize that that's a rather clunky mechanic, and a "Enforce X tier pieces" option would make it a lot simpler?

What if you wanted the 2 set bonus, but didn't care much for the 4 set bonus? There would be 10 possible combinations.

At least they updated their engine to support forcing Hit/Expertise caps.

You can customize some parts, but other parts of AMR aren't customizable, and work with the ideas of the AMR staff. Ideas I often disagree with.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Kal » Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:58 pm

I was thinking my method of determining the best off-piece to go with 4 set was elegantly simple. Perhaps we're approaching it from two different perspectives? As for a two piece BiS, that method would certainly be clunky. My first thought would be to instead set all warforged off-set, then consider each slot's downgrade value, choosing the two that downgrade the least. It's possible that a different combination, say the 1st and 3rd least downgraded slots would be BiS, but that's getting into advanced gearing that I don't think AMR is intended for.

I don't think AMR is the best place to get a BiS list from anyway. What I'm primarily defending here is it's use as a gem/enchant/reforge calculator with one's own stat values. It's value judgement for individual upgrades relative to current gear also seems reliable to me, but that's something that can easily be verified or not by simming using other tools. For example a 528 Vial of Living Corruption over 530 Soul Barrier is an easy call that really doesn't need simmed, but I'll double check AMR when comparing either 559 Rossi's Rosin-Soaked Shoulderplates in place of 540 Tier shoulders, or 559 Partik's Purified Legplates in place of 553 Tier legs.

So, in my case, AMR is primarily a calculator, somewhat of a catalogue, and a "quick-sim" for when I don't have time to use Simulationcraft.

As for where it's use is on the Noob-Leet spectrum, I think that even if one blindly follows the default settings, the results are better than the average LFR member's gearing. By not calling it noobish to use it that way, I mean that there is no gate and I am not the gatekeeper. The line between casual and hardcore is getting blurred.

As a side note, I was concerned for a moment that I might be derailing the thread a bit with this tangent, but perhaps the context of gearing and advise makes this the place for it anyway? Either way, perhaps we should move this to a new AMR thread? The old one I found in a search is dated.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Schadret » Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:36 am

Hi all,

First, a link to my armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/area-52/Schadret/advanced

Ok, so while I'm trying to learn how to use simcraft and interpret the results, I'm having a tough time determining if I should wear a few pieces I have sitting in the bank. We're early into heroic progression (have Immerseus, Norush and Nazgrim down).

I currently have the 4PC tier (all 561), but that includes the dodge legs.

Here's what I have in the bank:

Partik's Purified Legplates (Warforged 567) http://www.wowhead.com/item=105761
Corruption-Rotted Gauntlets (Heroic Warforged 580) http://www.wowhead.com/item=105413
Flex shoulder token (would upgrade to 548) http://www.wowhead.com/item=99594

So the questions I have are these

- Use the new legs and replace current warforged shoulders with Flex tier to maintain 4pc (thus not using 580 gloves)
- Use the new legs and gloves, dropping down to 2pc bonus
- Use the new gloves, and use flex shoulder in place of warforged to maintain 4pc bonus

One other thing, I also have heroic Bracers of Blind Hatred (574) http://www.wowhead.com/item=104460 but since they had +crit I didn't think much about using them, but maybe in combination with the above pieces they fit somewhere?

Thanks for any suggestions, and in the meantime I'm going to try and figure out simcraft to figure it out as well.

-Schad
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Kal » Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:39 pm

First off, keep 4 piece. LFR tier pieces appear to compete with off-set warforged pieces, when considering the 4 piece bonus.

Second, it might feel strange using a crit piece, but the extra 13 ilevels from the heroic Blind Hatred bracers is worth it. You'll get 102 armor, 160 strength, 240 stamina, and after reforging, only 550 crit left on the piece, leaving 1,320 useful stats, only 278 less than the Bubble-Burst (1598 stats). 278 effective secondary stats lost versus all that armor, strength, and stamina gained. On it's own, this upgrade is worth it.

That narrows down your options to:

1. Offset Shoulders: Leaving as is on armory.
2. Offset Gloves: Replacing 567 offset Shoulders with 548 Tier, upgrading 561 Tier Gloves with 580 Offset.
3. Offset Legs: Replacing 567 offset Shoulders with 548 Tier, upgrading 561 Tier Legs with 567 Offset.

Option 3 seems weak right off, compared to 2. It's another example of 13 ilevels vs optimum stats, and I'm pretty sure 13 ilevels wins. Between 1 and 2, I think it's going to be really close, so this is where simming will decide. I'm betting Option 1 is best, actually, just a SWAG.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Schadret » Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:15 pm

Thanks Kal!

Figured out the basics of simc and what to look for, looks like the best option is just using the heroic bracers of blind hatred, leaving the rest as is. That was both an increase in DPS and a lowering of TMI compared to every other combo I could think to run. Guess the 580's will have to get used in my offspec for now.

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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Fenrìr » Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:33 am

So I was doing a Normal Garrosh yesterday with another ret and a prot paladin. The ret pointed out the prot was using a H Spark and the prot claimed it's the 2nd best for tankadins. I glanced at Treckie and he's using a HTF one so I went on a little math search but cannot find a single post about it anywhere.

Am I missing something here?
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Kal » Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:36 am

I wouldn't say it's second best, but it is good. If he's having any problems, it's not due to the trinket. The haste gives more holy power, and the strength boosts Eternal Flame and Seal of Insight, so it's good for prot pally.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Thels » Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:17 am

I often still use one in combination with Thok's. Only when I think either the extra stamina or the cooldown reduction is going to make a difference do I switch to the Vial.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Halide » Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:33 am

Now that everything is on farm i'm looking to gear into dps, my main question regarding the dps bis would be is double amp trinket the way to go? I couldn't find one, so threw together my attempt at a bis list, but i'v really got no idea what i'm doing, so any corrections would be great, or a link to someone elses. The crit gems are becuase it took me over 50% haste, but i seem to recall amp counting twice in AMR or something, so that number could be wrong. Saving a AMR profile didn't seem to preserve what items were WF, so heres the simc export, is there another way i can easily link this?
Code: Select all
waist=poisonbinder_girth,id=105433,stats=3949armor_1827str_2981sta_1341hit_1082haste,gems=320crit_320crit_320crit,reforge=hit_crit
head=faceguard_of_winged_triumph,id=99370,stats=5617armor_2290str_3795sta_1567parry_1567haste,gems=capacitive_primal_160exp_160haste_270sta,reforge=parry_crit
legs=legplates_of_winged_triumph,id=99372,stats=6049armor_2370str_3795sta_1729crit_1400haste,gems=320crit_320crit_120str,enchant=285str_165crit,reforge=crit_hit
feet=wolfrider_spurs,id=105531,stats=4827armor_1907str_2981sta_1297crit_1260haste,gems=320crit_60crit,enchant=140mastery
chest=chestguard_of_winged_triumph,id=99368,stats=6913armor_2290str_3795sta_1162exp_1803mastery,gems=320haste_320haste_320haste,enchant=300sta,reforge=mastery_haste
shoulders=shoulderguards_of_winged_triumph,id=99364,stats=5185armor_1720str_2820sta_1192exp_1142mastery,gems=320haste_320haste,enchant=200str_100crit,reforge=mastery_haste
wrists=bubbleburst_bracers,id=105411,stats=3072armor_1490str_2236sta_1107hit_801haste,gems=320haste,enchant=500str,reforge=hit_crit
off_hand=bulwark_of_the_fallen_general,id=105556,stats=22519armor_1410str_2236sta_1002exp_856mastery,gems=320haste,enchant=170parry,reforge=mastery_haste
main_hand=siegecrafters_forge_hammer,id=105621,stats=1066str_1720sta_736haste_705mastery,gems=320haste,enchant=windsong,reforge=mastery_exp,weapon=mace_2.6speed_13192min_24500max
hands=handguards_of_winged_triumph,id=99369,stats=4321armor_1720str_2820sta_1365haste_856exp,gems=320haste_320haste_320haste,enchant=170haste,reforge=exp_crit
finger1=asgorathian_blood_seal,id=105620,stats=1410str_2236sta_978haste_930exp,gems=320haste,reforge=exp_crit
finger2=seal_of_the_forgotten_kings,id=105589,stats=1410str_2236sta_988crit_880haste,gems=320haste
back=gonglu_strength_of_xuen,id=102249,upgrade=2,gems=320haste,enchant=180crit,reforge=mastery_hit
trinket1=spark_of_zandalar,id=96770,upgrade=2
neck=malkoroks_tainted_dog_tags,id=105566,stats=1490str_2236sta_1052crit_896mastery,reforge=mastery_haste
trinket2=thoks_tail_tip,id=105609,upgrade=2


That was the highest dps profile i could get, but it is as a human so 1% exp. This is completely ignoring any survivability, just what gives the highest dps . I'm all over the place here, but basically asking if it's possible to do better, thanks in advance.
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