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[10H] Immerseus

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[10H] Immerseus

Postby fuzzygeek » Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:04 am

FatBoss Video Guide: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-viay6eizg

We spent some time figuring out a more detailed strategy that worked for us.
2 Tank
3 Healer
5 DPS, range had it easier; our melee was hating life on this fight
Our first kill time: 8:52

Loot:
Prot: Hit/Haste Wrist, Mast/Haste Glove, D/P Shoulder, D/P Wrist, Hit/P Feet, D/P Weapon
Ret: Hit/Haste Wrist, Mast/Haste Glove, Haste/Crit chest

I'd pull standing on one pie wedge, with the entire raid to my right.
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After the first Corrosive Blast, the second tank would taunt, and the entire raid would pivot onto my wedge, and the second tank would move to the wedge to my left. This made it a hell of a lot easier for me to pick up all the adds. For whatever reason, we always had a million adds spawn; the FatBoss guide gave the impression that you could throttle the spawn rate, but we wasted many pulls trying to slow adds to a trickle.
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On the swirl we would rotate clockwise, making a larger sweep if swirl was going to hit the raid:
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Then on the next Corrosive Blast I'd taunt and pivot around the second tank and the raid would rotate again.
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The active tank was always one wedge ahead, with the add tank on the same wedge as the raid. Healers and DPS would always rotate one wedge, tanks would either remain stationary (after taking a corrosive blast) or move two wedges (when swapping onto the boss).

On phase 2 we split the room into thirds, keeping 2T/1H/1DPS on current position, and sending 1H/2D to each of the other wedges. If there were concentrated pockets of adds we'd adjust on the fly accordingly.

At the end of the phase we'd reset positions around wherever the tanks were, with the rest of the raid mindful of the Blast timer (usually ~10 seconds after reengage) so they wouldn't be behind the tank when it went off. Usually after the first transition we'd be 90 degress to the left of the initial pull, and would just stay that way for the rest of the fight.

DPS tried to keep themselves under 3 stacks of the debuff; tanks were generally dispelled, with random dispels on the raid when possible as well.

Rotating every tank swap and swirl was a lot of movement, but it also meant we were constantly moving into clean real estate, which cut down on incidental raid damage quite a bit. Once we figured out the leapfrog choreography we killed it a few pulls later.

Edit: one significant benchmark was whether we pushed the phase transition by the end of the 2nd swirl. Doing so made the fight considerably easier. Whenever corruption dropped off the boss, DPS swapped to nuke it, even if there were a few adds up. If many adds were up or the boss phase changed between swirls, things got considerably messier.
Last edited by fuzzygeek on Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:31 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: 10H Immerseus

Postby PsiVen » Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:59 pm

This is the movement pattern we did, except that we went counterclockwise (right). Not sure which is better for dodging Swirl really, that was/is our #1 cause of death with too many stacks of the debuff just behind in #2.

You can slow the adds down a bit by telling everyone to only get to 2-3 stacks then focus entirely on the adds. We let a couple people keep getting stacks (still letting them fall off between) while the rest AoE and round up, then when the stacks are almost exhausted on the boss everyone ignores adds and lets the tanks clean up. Dispels are mostly reserved for failure to control your stacks. After a couple waves of this it's not really relevant anymore as there won't be enough adds/stacks going out to be problematic. The fight definitely gets continuously easier after the 2nd phase (which would be easier than the first, except for Heroism).
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Re: 10H Immerseus

Postby Schroom » Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:06 am

I really wonder why so complicated?

we spread around 1 half of the room. melees opposite to the tank.

the free tank catches the adds and taunts after the other one has his debuff.

after the taunt the now free tank catches the remaining adds.

a minimum of movement required for DPS and healers.

I mean. just "move out of shit" and "watch your stacks" should be a minimum requirement for heroic raiders...
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Re: 10H Immerseus

Postby fuzzygeek » Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:07 am

Rotating around made it trivial for the add tank to pick everything up. When we were just setting up camp on two wedges we had issues with too many adds being too spread out, and just being on a single wedge led to space constraints, which melee had problems with when they couldn't actually see the floor because there were too many adds up.

Again, perhaps there's something that can be done to throttle just how fast adds are coming out, but for whatever reason we always had all the adds spawn very quickly.

While you can use just the one wedge, I don't see how it's any better. We felt like we were scrambling a lot before we started rotating; once we started dancing around the fight felt very, very smooth and easy.

Moving one radian over every so often doesn't seem like it'd be much more movement than constantly dancing around an increasingly crowded platform, and it's a lot less incidental damage from poorly placed pools. or taking damage from fountains because you literally can't see anything. Avoiding the moving pools on the phase change was also trivial.

Sure, you can summarize every fight with "move out of shit" and "watch your damage intake," but I would have saved a couple hours with a more detailed battle plan and figure people this far behind the curve might benefit.

If you've got some useful pointers that'd be helpful. While you're correct in saying "move out of shit" and "watch your stacks" is a minimum requirement for heroic raiders, pointing that out doesn't actually add much to the conversation.
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Re: [10H] Immerseus

Postby Xfighter » Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:51 am

Ill look at posting up our positioning when I get home. I feel we do it a similar way to Schroom.

For the adds, I actually get angry with my DPS when they dont get all of the stacks off the boss into one group of adds, as the timing works out to if you kill one set of adds, then have to wait on another set + aoe that as well, you lose out on a lot of time giving people more chances to mess something up (mainly swirl)). We tell dps to only get up to ~4 stacks then stop, and once they wear off to get more. Forcing the adds out all at once. On progression of had our 2 healers trying to get some stacks off as well as the tanks going a bit higher.

We set it up so I always take the first breath in each phase, leaving me free to pick up the adds. I run Holy prism on this fight (one of the only 2 fights I use it for). I wait until I see about half the adds spawned and then quickly hit the boss with HP which generally pulls all the adds right to me. Sometimes I'll even save putting up EF for when adds are spawning for the extra healing threat. Only issues is the adds that spawn late if AoE is going nuts, or if they are AoEing too close to melee range (warlocks..). I generally tell them to wait on hitting them till they see most of them are at me. If someone pulls some off you, easy enough to HoP or salv them.

Overall positioning gets a bit more technical as we do 2t 2h 6d, but it works out to staggering people on a half of the room. Typically goes ranged/healer in the back, melee in the front (or another ranged). Important bit is to not really include the 2nd tank in the positioning as they can generally move wherever. I'll really try to get a picture up soon. Only trouble we run into is swirl spawning right in the middle of everyone, but ranged can run towards the back wall to not get hit, and the melee just needs to run a little bit.
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Re: [10H] Immerseus

Postby Ironshield » Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:46 am

We're heading in for this fight tonight.

So silly question but how exactly should I be using Holy Prism? I have pretty much never used that talent in anger and I just wanted to confirm. Do I hit the boss with it for the Healer threat or do I heal someone with it and let the AoE threat pick up the adds?
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Re: [10H] Immerseus

Postby Belloc » Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:24 am

The healing threat from Holy Prism is negligible. Odds are that a DPS or healer will have out-threated it immediately (assuming that your holy prism wasn't already nearly 100% overheal). I'd suggest Light's Hammer, instead. Toss it either on the range cluster (if they're not too spread out), or toss it on a healer.

For my raid, we have a holy paladin with RF on, so when I tank the adds I toss my Light's Hammer and Consecrate on him and then start my regular AOE rotation. Some adds will get away, so be prepared to grab them with Avenger's Shield procs (and salvation/protection).
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Re: [10H] Immerseus

Postby Schroom » Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:38 am

the thing is, we don't let our DPS actually DPS the adds. they stay on the Boss, watching out for their stacks and that's it. we kill the adds in the intermission. by then no one can outhreat the tanks.

if healers get aggro we use HoS and BoP
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Re: [10H] Immerseus

Postby Ironshield » Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:07 am

So we tried it last night. Login servers delayed start by 45 minutes, then my kak-handed attempt to update Weak Auras meant I lost another half hour or so before I was in a decent state to know what I was doing, then lag ruined another hour or so of attempts. We got him down through 3 or 4 splits and would almost certainly have killed it with a proper night's worth of attempts.

Big problem though, the adds don't seem to show threat properly. Threat plates just says they're all red, even those that are definitely on me and according to my raid frames the only other person with aggro on anything was my co-tank even though I can see people with groups of adds. Is this normal? or have I broken something other than my weak auras?

P2 change didn't seem to cause much problem.

Swirl is the most annoying mechanic if you have to run away from it as main tank. After a while we just reverted to diving through if we were tanking the boss.
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Re: [10H] Immerseus

Postby Belloc » Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:22 pm

Swirl can definitely be problematic for the current Immerseus tank depending on when it hits them. If it starts on them and hits them right away, it's not so bad because you have plenty of time to get back. If it hits them during the last half or three-fourths of the cast, then someone is possibly going to get gibbed.

If the swirl is going to hit the tank at his current tank location, they might as well run to it right away and eat the knockback early. If it's going to stop on or near the tank's location, they can move a bit out of the way, as long as they either don't out-range their healers or are able to keep themselves alive long enough to get back in position.

I haven't noticed any issues with enemy nameplates, but you can probably assume that anything near you is probably attacking you and everything else is on someone else.
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Re: [10H] Immerseus

Postby Xfighter » Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:17 pm

If you always tank the boss coming out of his split phase, and eat the first breath, then a holy prism + 3+ HP EF when a chunk of adds have spawned is more than enough to pull everything that is spawned to you. You hit the boss with HP and it heals the 5 or so in melee range. - This might not be as effective if you have people more spread - we do 4 rows of 2 and then the two tanks drifting between tank spot and nearer the group. The groups of two are one in melee range (melee or ranged, doesn't matter if you have groups of 2 casters, and one towards the back. HP should heal you + 3 DPS + other tank, producing a lot of threat as you've just soaked a blast.


Once adds reach you and you start AoEing, veng will go up a little bit and with EF+SoI you should be pulling the freshly spawning adds to you as well (I make sure DPS don't AoE anything but the things on me, which gives most of the adds time to run to your hammer/cons hits.



For swirl I have my co-tank call the positioning out (IE. if groups safe or needs to move - since he has nothing to pay attention to at that point while I'm on adds). Ranged (the ones at the back of the group run out towards the wall to dodge getting hit if it goes by them), the melee either eat it with a CD or run away from it. I'll eat it if it starts near me, otherwise will try to dodge usually.
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Re: [10H] Immerseus

Postby Schroom » Mon Feb 03, 2014 3:55 am

Ironshield wrote:So we tried it last night. Login servers delayed start by 45 minutes, then my kak-handed attempt to update Weak Auras meant I lost another half hour or so before I was in a decent state to know what I was doing, then lag ruined another hour or so of attempts. We got him down through 3 or 4 splits and would almost certainly have killed it with a proper night's worth of attempts.

Big problem though, the adds don't seem to show threat properly. Threat plates just says they're all red, even those that are definitely on me and according to my raid frames the only other person with aggro on anything was my co-tank even though I can see people with groups of adds. Is this normal? or have I broken something other than my weak auras?

P2 change didn't seem to cause much problem.

Swirl is the most annoying mechanic if you have to run away from it as main tank. After a while we just reverted to diving through if we were tanking the boss.



got the same thread problema s you. alltough It didn't occour the first IDs, only after a patch I think I saw this. didn't bother me though. As I have tanked back when there where no threat plates :P but I aggree it's annoying. jsut have people call out when they have a few adds on them. run to them / they run to you and AoE / HoS / BoP that person.

I always use SoL and run through the swirl
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