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[25H] Garosh

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[25H] Garosh

Postby samsara » Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:39 am

Hi guys,

only a small question as it seems after first night of trying this fight is not much different to the normal version.

Do you guys soak Annihilate for some vengeance? I tried it with cooldowns and had no problem surviving as i'm literally just standing around and try to help a bit with HoP or a Stun at the add's in P1, and P2 the dmg isn't too hard, so my vengeance level is aroung zero in p1 and not very high on p2. On Tranisition i soaked the Annihilate twice for a bit of vengeance + hammer of light as this seemed not to be a bad idea there in transition 1 where sometimes not even all people managed to get the buff in the first tries. I don't think the additional dmg is realy needed (average ilvl 577 probably , thats what wowprogress is telling me), but is there a real advantage to soak except for hammer of light, or is it just out of boredom and YOLO that tanks do it?
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Re: [25H] Garosh

Postby boomke » Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:04 pm

If you do it properly you can soak most/all the annihilates and the purpose for doing this is dps output :)

What i do is the following:

We start the first 2 annihilates with AM and i combine that with DP
When the AM drops i use AD and use stoneform when DP drops
When AD falls off i will use GOAK

After that rotation there will be 1 or 2 more annihilates. You could choose to just get 1 more annihilate and proc your cloak but if you are still progressing i wouldn't recommend that :)
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Re: [25H] Garosh

Postby samsara » Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:04 am

thx very much , i will try it tonight :)
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Re: [25H] Garosh

Postby Incalcando » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:01 pm

It's next to useless standing in annihilate DPS wise and pretty dangerous to fail. Doesn't give much vengeance either. If you want to contribute on P1, taunt the boss for 2-3 seconds when he does his shout, it'll give you about 50% vengeance which you can use to help a lot more. On phase 2 your vengeance will be at around 60% unless the other tank is solo tanking.
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Re: [25H] Garosh

Postby boomke » Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:01 pm

Incalcando i do agree with the fact that it is maybe dangerous to fail but you can also just stop trying when your cloak procs so there is no risk after that at all.

The vengeance part i dont agree because after like 4 annihilates you will have atleast 350k vengeance and that will ramp up to like 650k.
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Re: [25H] Garosh

Postby samsara » Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:41 am

we have tried it a bit but it made dmg whise most sense for use to let one tank, solo tank phase 1, so we can get into first transition at around 93%.

in the first transition phase i take about 1-3 annihilates, and throw a lights hammer which will help healers a bit and for phase 2 i'm again mostly offtanking, i take it only once between whirl 2 and 3 just before the people get mind controlled to help them get out faster and again between whirl 3 and 4 for 2 or 3 stacks to let the debuff fall off the other tank, so we can get into transition 2 with around 26-28%. this way it's a bit borring for me as i'm not much tanking anything until 2 1/2 but thats ok so far and if it helps to down this guy and finish progress for this content i'm good with it :)

at the moment , after 3rd progressnight we are keeping whiping at the 2nd empowered whirl and sometimes in p3 which isn't that bad i think. so we may get it done next raidlockout :)
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Re: [25H] Garosh

Postby Winkle » Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:29 am

samsara wrote:we have tried it a bit but it made dmg whise most sense for use to let one tank, solo tank phase 1, so we can get into first transition at around 93%.


Actually you would increase DPS if the 2nd tank taunted for vengance during P1, since the OT would gain 50% of the MT's vengance. The MT could then just taunt right back or the OT could even taunt/salv.
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Re: [25H] Garosh

Postby Galiks » Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:13 am

The bottom line is an ideal tank's job is to simply survive without over-stressing healers and couple that with assisting in maximizing raid DPS.

Thus, if you can survive annihilates for extra vengeance safely, you should do that or you're simply wasting would-be added DPS for no reason (especially 25 man where you have a surplus of external damage reduction CDs available). If you have two tanks, you should share vengeance and taunt smartly to maximize vengeance between the two of yourselves, with the higher output DPS tanking more often (if not much more often). If you aren't doing this, you logically aren't contributing everything you could to the raid and simply don't have the right mindset.

On my alt, for example, I vastly tank the majority of 25H garrosh while ensuring my brewmaster offtank upholds his vengeance buff and taunts when I approach peak amounts of vengeance [i.e. after battle shouts in p1]. I soak every annihilate [because shield barrier is imbalanced with vengeance scaling] while calling for externals if needed, mainly vigilance from our DPS warriors.
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Re: [25H] Garosh

Postby Lid » Mon Feb 03, 2014 3:19 pm

I'm seeing that a lot of prot paladins specced into Sacred Shield for this encounter - maybe this was during the time period when people were still trying to figure out if EF was actually worth it, or because the players sped through the content so fast that they didn't have their set bonuses.

Supposing that I'm attempting the encounter in nearly BiS gear - is Sacred Shield worth considering?
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Re: [25H] Garosh

Postby Xfighter » Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:57 pm

EF trumps SS in most regards. Some tanks might have been using SS earlier on when on the lower side of health, but in nearly full BiS not using EF would be a detriment to you more than likely.
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Re: [25H] Garosh

Postby samsara » Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:04 am

my tankpartner also skilled SS instead of EF on the kill, but on heavy tankdmg fights we both just feel a little bit safer with it, we also used it on heroic klaxxi and at least we killed it that way.

We also tried the suggested taunting for vengeance but in the end i decided not to do it as we had problems with tauntimunities and so i only taunted 1 sec before intermission1 , at the whirls in p2, and at 3-4 stacks in P3, that way our healers only had to focus on one tank and only one tank needed external cooldowns. We didn't had any dmg-problems and played around a strat where we have only 1 whirl after intermission2 and with only one whirl in P3. The soaking in the intermission worked good, but after dying on an anihilate without cloakproc i did it only with cooldowns for the first 3-4 anihilates and threw my lights hammer on the floor to support healers a bit.
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Re: [25H] Garosh

Postby Paoanii » Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:26 am

Soaking Annihilates without externals is very easy and very possible and very safe. All you need is a heroic+ CDR trinket or an AoE reduction trinket from Protectors (CDR being preferable as the aoe reduction isn't all that helpful for most of the rest of the fight). All you need to do is make sure that you get a bubble buff, then use DP (Unglyphed, get a Sac/Vigi/PS if glyphed) and AD ~1s before the first annihilate hits. These will last you up through annihilate 3. Once AD/DP fall, use GoAK ~1s before the next smash hits (getting this as close as possible is helpful, but not necessary, though definitely need to pop it <2s before). This will last you up through annihilate 7 (the 7th will land in the last second or two of GoAK, don't panic). Right before the 8th lands, DP will come up again, if it's unglyphed that is all you will need for the rest of the phase and you can pair it with stoneform here if you are a dwarf. If you have DP glyphed, you will need externals during DP, but no other time, and an Ironbark is sufficient enough to cover that time. If you don't have a CDR trinket, use the AoE reduction as GoAK falls.

After you come out of that phase, salv yourself and toggle RF off, pop HA, and laugh as you burst yourself 200k higher on the meters. Soaking the annihilates is an ~20m damage gain on 10H, it's probably less on 25H, but still absolutely worth it.
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Re: [25H] Garosh

Postby Lid » Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:43 am

Soaking the annihilates seems a lot less risky now that I've gotten used to the damage levels and healing that I need to do in order to sustain it. I look at it now as trading in my defensive cooldowns for extra damage. I still have the option of using my cooldowns in p1, but that's usually only if something goes wrong with the adds (likely them hitting me in the back).

You don't really need the cooldowns in phase 2, given how frequently tank swaps occur (banking holy power for the taunt lessens the need, plus the actual tanking duration is short enough that you don't get full value from the cooldowns). Soaking the annihilates seems to be the best use of these defensives.

Plus they'll be back up again for p3 when you might actually need them.
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