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Ghostcrawler Quits!

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Re: Ghostcrawler Quits!

Postby Thels » Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:49 am

Like a Mage or Warlock tank?

But yeah... With current game design, the only use of "tank" stance is to severely increase your threat. When I'm doing Scenarios without a tank or when I'm out questing with someone else, I run RF just so I don't have to run after them.

I do think it would be an interesting concept to buff DPS survivability in Tank Stance a bit to allow for that kind of encounters, but I guess it would open a whole can of worms for PvP. The idea would probably require a DPS Warrior or Paladin to equip a 1hander and shield, which they might not have sitting in their bags at all, leading to further issues.
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Re: Ghostcrawler Quits!

Postby Darielle » Sun Dec 22, 2013 1:54 pm

Worldie wrote:Such things are not in place anymore, because essentially if you aren't in tank spec, a raid mob is going to 2shot you even if you go in tank "stance", both due to reduced tank stance effectiveness in non-tank spec (or even non existant in case of ret and monks), and due to the absence of active mitigation.
And if a mob doesnt 2shot a non-tank, it doesnt require a tank at all.

Current game design, that's it.


Such things ARE in place. Any Feral with Heart has zero issues surviving for the duration of it, and even for some time after - I've had to do it several times. There are plenty of specs with decent enough cooldowns/mitigation passively; it's not that they'll be 2-shot. It's that there is no point because it's a severe dps loss, and in some cases bosses are coded specifically to, say, ignore Hunter pets etc. Pretty sure if I was actually in Bear and being healed, I could take Blackfuse to 3-stacks and then turn around and blow up an add np, even on Heroic.

It wasn't particularly long ago when Hunters were having to use a Turtle pet on 10H to herd Skeletons on Heroic Nef too, don't forget. It's just that at this point if you wanted to sink enough into it, you might as well just stick a 3rd tank instead.
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Re: Ghostcrawler Quits!

Postby Worldie » Sun Dec 22, 2013 6:28 pm

Darielle wrote:Such things ARE in place. Any Feral with Heart has zero issues surviving for the duration of it, and even for some time after - I've had to do it several times. There are plenty of specs with decent enough cooldowns/mitigation passively; it's not that they'll be 2-shot. It's that there is no point because it's a severe dps loss, and in some cases bosses are coded specifically to, say, ignore Hunter pets etc. Pretty sure if I was actually in Bear and being healed, I could take Blackfuse to 3-stacks and then turn around and blow up an add np, even on Heroic.

Using cooldowns to emergencly offtank something is not the same as actually tanking something as offspec.
What me and the others were talking about was using a DPS spec to actually exstensively tank something through a encounter. Imagine a feral having to tank adds on say, wind lord heroic: you know very well that as soon as the 2nd set of add comes, he'd go splat very fast cause all his CDs would be down.

What you talk about is a emergency or very short offtanking, which can be done even by a priest in dispersion in some cases.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Ghostcrawler Quits!

Postby Darielle » Sun Dec 22, 2013 6:51 pm

Using cooldowns to emergencly offtank something is not the same as actually tanking something as offspec.
What me and the others were talking about was using a DPS spec to actually exstensively tank something through a encounter. Imagine a feral having to tank adds on say, wind lord heroic: you know very well that as soon as the 2nd set of add comes, he'd go splat very fast cause all his CDs would be down.

What you talk about is a emergency or very short offtanking, which can be done even by a priest in dispersion in some cases.


No, I'm saying that as Feral, without Heart, living through Blackfuse for the entire fight getting up to 3-stacks then rotating to add would not be very hard. I'd imagine the healers couldn't really afford to have the raid clip Shockwaves and all that jazz to make it worse, but the actual encounter would be more than possible.

Feral is simply the biggest thing for picking up tanking in a pinch as a damage dealer because of Heart, which is a good talent anyway. It takes little to no extra prep the way that Demonology using the glyph would involve a specific prep for gemming etc. There are several specs in the game who have the ability to became tank-capable for more than a temporary stretch, there's just not much point because it takes a big sacrifice.

IDK why you're bringing up a 1-tank fight like Wind Lord Heroic, and more importantly acting as if you'd have someone "tank adds". If you were to 2-tank it, and you were to have a non-traditional-tank, said non-traditional-tank would be parked on Wind Lord assuming you're tanking them apart or something anyway (and really, why would you?). Beyond that, if you're spaced out on kills to where there's only 3 adds at a time on the Feral, that would have been doable sans cooldowns, with a bit of butt-clenching, as long as Quickening wasn't stacking. The ability to not die during Dispersion is quite different to someone else living through a minute or two, btw. Even for using cooldowns to soak mechanics, a Cat has 3 cooldowns outside of Heart, and Rogues have comparable power, not even counting how Feint is hilarious if the boss' most threatening ability counts as "aoe". You can't really compare Dispersion for 6 seconds hoping dots can finish thigns off to a Cat's ability to literally tank through 2 whole rounds on Malkorok, which means you go a full cycle to the next Blood Rage phase from the first. Things like Dark Apothesis don't really compare, and mean you're complete shit for the rest of the fight anyway.

Ultimately, the whole non-traditional tank, with the prep that goes behindi t, just becomes another gimmick. The difference with Vanilla was that the talent trees were so screwed up that it was a GOOD tanking spec for your main role, kinda like how for a while Resto did more melee damage than Feral.
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Re: Ghostcrawler Quits!

Postby Worldie » Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:40 am

Darielle wrote:kinda like how for a while Resto did more melee damage than Feral.

it still does in fact in leveling :P
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Ghostcrawler Quits!

Postby Darielle » Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:55 pm

Worldie wrote:
Darielle wrote:kinda like how for a while Resto did more melee damage than Feral.

it still does in fact in leveling :P


I doubt it still does - it'd definitely get superceded when Roar enters the picture.
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Re: Ghostcrawler Quits!

Postby Worldie » Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:12 pm

Well on my resto druid in leveling, up to lvl 81 or so I could easily 2-3shot any mob in cat form thanks to the int > agi conversion.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Ghostcrawler Quits!

Postby Darielle » Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:24 pm

Cats have been doing that since like, Wrath :P

It just actually took patience to get to level 20 to GET Cat Form (my Druid was my 8th attempt and the only one to make it past lvl 12)
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Re: Ghostcrawler Quits!

Postby Fridmarr » Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:44 pm

In vanilla, I put on my robe and wizard hat
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