Post your Frustrations.

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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Skye1013 » Sun Dec 15, 2013 11:18 am

Kuntrell

That's an unfortunate name...
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Klaudandus » Sun Dec 15, 2013 11:57 am

Skye1013 wrote:
Kuntrell

That's an unfortunate name...


Yeah, he was doomed from the start.

Nooska wrote:Well, there is a distinct difference between participating in a felony where someone gets killed, and driving drunk and killing someone.


Maybe killing someone while driving dunk should be a felony right off the bat. It just seems that the black kid was a better candidate at rehabilitation seeing that he did not directly kill anyone, even if he was involved in a crime that ended in the death of someone.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Amirya » Sun Dec 15, 2013 6:11 pm

Maybe driving while intoxicated should be a felony right off the bat.

(And I can safely say I have never done that, because I do not like the feeling of intoxication, see no point to drinking, and find the assholes who DO get intoxicated a thousand times more entertaining than participating in such activities.)
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Fetzie » Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:10 am

I think that people need to learn to drink properly (i.e. responsibly) before they learn to drive

1. I would allow people to drink non-spirits (beer and wine) at 16-17, spirits at 18 and obtain a driving license at 18 with 1 year probation (if you get caught drink-driving, you lose the license and have to retake the course and exam) and the retake date is at the earliest when the probation period would have expired should the license be revoked. A new probation period would start upon passing of the driving license. Probationary licenses are invalid between 10 pm and 6 am unless there is an immediate medical emergency.

and

2. getting caught drink-driving should be a 12 month licence suspension. Community work or suspended jail sentence on the second offense and a chat with a medical psychologist who can refuse to sign off on allowing you to retake your driving test. Third offense would be a jail term, driving license revoked and a 3 year waiting period until you can retake the driving lesson course and examination (to begin upon leaving jail.

Causing an accident while drunk-driving would be classed as manslaughter.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Nooska » Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:36 am

Apart from teh probation period on drivers licenses, your point no. 1 is teh reality in denmark.
I agree probationary licenses could be a thing, though I would not agree on the stipulated times.
Anecdotally, I learned to drive (you first learn to take the test, then you learn to drive, like my teacher said) by driving, I'd say about 15.000 km the first 6 months - at night when the traffic was low (I was already on sick leave at the time).

By restricitng the timeslot, you are guaranteeing that new drivers can only drive during the hours where there is a significant amount of traffic.

If I were to restrict it, I would restrict them from driving during rush hours instead (excepting if they were actually going to work etc.)

The probelm with the restriction (which could work in any number of ways in theory) is how to enforce it. You can't pull someone over for looking young, so you have to have a probable cause of some other sort to check whether they are allowed to drive. (Exceptions for medical emergencies, I would thinnk to be superflous, as a) you shouldn't be driving if you have a medical emergency, b) you should have professionals on hand if you are not already driving before heading to the hospital, and c) most countries I know of have a proviso of "right of emergency" / "state of necessity" whereby you are immunized for breaking the law if you broke it to prevent a greater loss (to put it briefly) - like running the red light to get out of the way of the ambulance with sirens coming up behind you (or breaking a window to save a life) - a state of law whereby you can apply the self-defence principle to others and to goods (you may destroy something of a lesser value to save something of a greater value without incurring culpuous responsibility if you believed it was the only/best/fastest way and the bonus pater familias would have done so to)
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Fetzie » Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:37 am

The police could just run the plates of a young driver and look at who is insured to drive the car and how old they are.

They have a similar thing here in Germany, where you can do your driver license at 17, but you have to be accompanied by a responsible adult (parent or guardian) that has held a full drivers license for at least three years until you turn 18 and can't drive at night or on motorways.
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bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Sagara » Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:05 am

Almost got phished with yesterday's login server outage.

Got a phishing mail in, that claims password was changed, yada yada yada.
Deciding to play it safe, I try to log on Diablo - no success, some kind of error.

Hmm...

WoW? HS? Same shit.

*Starting to worry a bit*

Going to the main website, trying to log via the web interface - still no luck.

"Oh for the love of!"

Only THEN did I realize my Battlenet had a small blurb below mentionning login issues.

If account thiefs start crashing Battlenet to lend their fake mails credence, that's pushing it far! :mrgreen:
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Amirya » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:23 am

Tried to do HoF LFR yesterday, to help out my roommate, since he couldn't queue for ToES as part of the legendary quest, since he never completed HoF.

Decided to take my paladin as a healer, could use the practice.

Yeah.

Paladin tank died on every single trash pull. Every. Single. Pull. Didn't matter if it was 5 or 20 in the pull, he died. Even with three dedicated healers on him alone (disc priest, holy priest, and me). His co-tank (and apparently guildie) couldn't hold aggro on anything. At all. Subsequently, battle rezzes were wasted on the dead tank on trash.

Also, the co-tank was a dual wielding Blood DK...

We both bailed before the first boss when said dead tank kept wanting to pull the boss when we're down a healer and several dps (the ones who got tired of dying after dead tank splatted).
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby bldavis » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:51 am

dual weilding blood dk.....*twitch*
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Amirya » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:55 am

Using the 450 BoA weapons that you find in the world. One was the Blade of the Prime, the other was the other one handed sword whose name escapes me...

Also, Sigil of Patience (429 trinket), and Watermelon Bomb (399 trinket).

I trust it's clear why we chose to just leave.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Newsom » Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:10 pm

Monk co-tank wants to reroll paladin. I really don't see the point of having 3 plate tanks, of which 2 are paladins. -.-
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:14 pm

because you play what is fun? *shocking*
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Newsom » Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:23 pm

Klaudandus wrote:because you play what is fun? *shocking*


Well, we most likely can't both play the same thing. I don't have the energy to fight for my spot at the moment. Plus it means we have to go recruit a brewmaster regardless... dick move in my book. We recruited him specifically to play brewmaster.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Sagara » Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:01 pm

Honestly, that's what alt raids are for - playing fun alts. If you're going for high ranks, you have to accept a little compromise in your fun (like you already do with fixed playtimes, preparation time, study time and whatnot). Most serious guilds have a couple of nights of breathers that often include alt raids for silly fun.

As a player, I wouldn't have dreamt of maining another toon without at least a major patch in the coming weeks/months (and only switch at that specific point), and a very long discussion with the raid team. They're counting not only on me as a player, but on my toon, his gear and abilities. I got like to be taken as Paladin in a guild with another Pally tank, but that's because the Offs accepted the compromise, and the other Pally was completely kosher with it.

As a GM/RL, I had always been clear that I frowned (but did not outright refuse) main switching mid-patch, because even if we were casuals, one player having his way could mean no raids for -anyone- for weeks, screwing 9 extra people for the sake of one.

Seriously, it's a dick move. Less so than had he decided to go, say, Warlock, but definitly more so than admitting he didn't have fun on his Brewmaster, and ask for opportunities, and if none were available, bow out of the Heroic raiding. There's a nuance between "not having fun and finding solutions" and "being a dick and having one's way at the expense of the rest of the raid/guild".
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Amirya » Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:16 pm

Well, if he can no longer fulfill his commitment to be a Brewmaster, then you can no longer fulfill your commitment to provide him a guaranteed raid spot...
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:30 pm

That seams like a reasonable solution. =P
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Era » Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:54 pm

Amirya wrote:Well, if he can no longer fulfill his commitment to be a Brewmaster, then you can no longer fulfill your commitment to provide him a guaranteed raid spot...


Well, if he can no longer fulfil his commitment to bring the kegs, then you can no longer fulfil your commitment to provide him a guaranteed invite to the party.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Sagara » Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:55 pm

That actually opens an interesting debate:

It's fairly obvious to all of us that we want to have fun when playing (WoW or otherwise). Still we accept non-fun rules and limitations (or don't, as our Brewmaster has proven).

Going on a limb, it's also basically what stops us from being constant proof of the G.I.F.T. theory - we choose to stifle our base instincts and "play nice", but why is that?

Is this linked to an idea of obsequience to a greater power? Because a team of players can take the ball away from us? Or is there a deeper point to be made that we realize we need to compromise and accept the natural paradox of "less fun to have more fun".

Sorry, late night and no hearthstone just supercharged my philosophical side :oops:
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:13 pm

I think my main point is that this is why I would probably not fit at all in a heroic raid/guild -- Me and my buddies are too lax and are more about the social aspect (ie, having fun) than fidgeting about raid comp.

Perhaps why I raise an eyebrow at this is because he wants to continue fulfilling the same type of role (tank) although with a different toon. True, there would be a setback in having to regear that toon, but if if the big stink is about raid comp, rather than raid role, well... didn't Blizz said it should be about bringing the player, not the toon. *Yeah, being a bit facetious here*


As for the whole philosophical thing about the Social Contract, well... let's say I can do whatever I want, and I take a 2x4 and hit someone over the head and steal their wallet, but it also means someone could do that and worse to me -- hence why we kind of restrain ourselves in our daily lives just so we can go on about our business.

I think the problem is that some people attribute this "social contract" to religion; that without it, we would not be able to be social, that if you're an atheist, there is no way you could be moral.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Sagara » Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:35 pm

Seems some people haven't even read their basics on Nietsche. Sur, the guy was a massive dick, but he made serIous points as to why humans aren't necessarily assholes when set free.

Wait.did you just drag me in one of your political thingies??

Back to wow then! I think you're overdoing it a bit - many serious guilds are not quite as harsh, while other are probably even harsher (I can imagine some guilds push to have specific rerolls available for class stacking). Another assinine thing is the guy went from Leather to Plate and changing Token type, meanong even more gearing headache for the leadership.

I guess you need to have led a team for a bit to realize how annoying it can be to make something work out of 9 cats meowing between your legs for the tasty, tasty cat food of Loot.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Nooska » Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:36 pm

To answer Sag's question, (for myself), I think it also has to do with teh commintment we generally make when applying to / joining a raid / guild - we want to be treated well, so we, in general, treat the others well.

As to switching, sure, its been done, and I've experienced it quite a few times, but I've never seen an issue arise, because the people wanting to swith usually started by saying so and bringing their alt (to be main) to runs where it was immediately possible to bring it (be that farmyfarm runs or alt runs or whatever) to gear up. Everyone also accepted (generally) that on those runs, the to-be-main had a slight priority on goods that would help the raid when it was the main.
Add to that that we have generally had officers who have been willing to switch roles and classes (not just specs) to suit the raids needs (and not just officers, reg members too).

I have been on the other end once - in Cata, when I got sick and tired of being a hunter in T11 (I felt I didn't provide enough dps, and that the roles I could fill were gimmicks that actually screwed the raid over when I wasn't there - like pet tanking the skeletions on nefarian in P1 - it worked like a charm, but the raid was stuck on P1 when I wasn't there).
I asked to start playing Mooska for heals (Chimaeron was obvious for an extra healer) - this being T11, I just made sure to be preraid equipped and it was the same (gearwise) as if we had a new recruited healer.
Ended up tanking a bit on the side, and when FL rolled around I had retired from the raid - partly due to being denied switching to tank or healer (they didn't want to loose me on hunter I was told) and partly because - fed up with char means I'm not enjoying the raiding and not providing my best. New tier rolled around and I was retired - raid team lost a tank, and I offered to tank for the team till they aquired a new tank that could take over (fast forward to heroic T13 where we ended at.. 6/8 (I missed the kill of Warmaster, sadly) and still hadn't gotten another reliable tank.

Sometimes I think if only I had stayed tank we would have had it so much easier in T14 - but being unable to come at least 3 raids per month (with 3 raids per week) was too much, as I was going to be (co)raid leading - so I went back to DPS...
(Talking about it, I'm thinking about dusting off Mooska, who is still in Org, still in her T13 (partly heroic), Tmogged to T1+Blackguard and Force Reactive disk...)
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Era » Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:18 pm

I think "fun" is a very malleable term. I, for one, seriously did have fun as a GM/RL of heroic progression, going through logs and fidgeting with both class/spec distributions, loot optimisations, graphs and tables and numbers and numbers and numbers. I also find mathematics fun. Not just fancy physics, astronomy, chemistry and the other things with bells and whistles, but also pure mathematics and all the implications its existence and functionality brings with it. Fun is a deceivingly complicated term, not to mention about as individual as individual gets! :lol:
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Teranoid » Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:22 pm

When I got tired of my shaman I just stopped raiding entirely.

If I'm not going to fill the role of what I signed up for I'm not going to upset the balance of the group by demanding they let me play something else.

Then again I'm not selfish and really don't care about loot when its the end of an expansion and in months will be rendered ultimately useless :D
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Rhiannon » Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:23 pm

Klaudandus wrote:I think my main point is that this is why I would probably not fit at all in a heroic raid/guild -- Me and my buddies are too lax and are more about the social aspect (ie, having fun) than fidgeting about raid comp.

Perhaps why I raise an eyebrow at this is because he wants to continue fulfilling the same type of role (tank) although with a different toon. True, there would be a setback in having to regear that toon, but if if the big stink is about raid comp, rather than raid role, well... didn't Blizz said it should be about bringing the player, not the toon. *Yeah, being a bit facetious here*


Newsom's in a hardcore progress oriented raiding guild iirc. I seem to recall Apex often floating around in world top 10-20, sometimes higher, though I've not been following the raiding scene in the last couple of tiers. So his situation is not comparable to even most guilds that manage to fully clear raids on heroic before the next tier comes out; let alone guilds who don't aim for that level of progression.

Optimising gear acquisition and distribution is a significant issue in the first few weeks of any tier for those who treat progression as a competition. Every item that gets disenchanted or goes to someone's rarely used off-spec because you're lacking a primary user for it is a waste that costs your raid performance, and the more competitively you play, the more gaming drop probabilities is a consideration.

And tanks are not all equal for all things. Diversity is almost always better - more options are almost always good. Going from two different tanks to two of the same tank, regardless of the classes, will almost always hamstring performance at the bleeding edge, unless a particular raid tier is designed and balanced exceptionally poorly.

Remember that fun is not objective, and your play style is not the only way to have fun while raiding. I'm sure Newson gets a great deal of enjoyment from raiding in his environment a lot of the time.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:53 pm

I did say I was being facetious
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