Politics (formerly Election 2012)

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:44 pm

So, any idea what caused the shift?
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:45 pm

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/21/us/po ... l?hp&_r=4&

I'd be more willing to listen to the GOP if their plan included how they would actually fix things, like economy, healthcare, jobs... them attacking Obamacare, again and again, is not gonna miraculously fix everything else in the country...
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:51 pm

http://www.salon.com/2013/11/20/its_pau ... son_again/
The takeaway for Ryan, a Catholic, has been explicitly religious. "You cure poverty eye to eye, soul to soul," he said last week at the Heritage forum. "Spiritual redemption: That's what saves people."

Hmm... I heard some fella called Jesus said something different
Luke 18:22 -- When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

The funniest part is that the new Pope is all about helping the poor and bitchslapped the Bishop of Bling in Germany about a month ago.

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Nooska » Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:34 pm

Klaudandus wrote:So, any idea what caused the shift?

Yeah, national tendencies combined with bigger voter turnout (+10 percentage points of voter participation), and the technical electoral union.

All the center-left was counted as one big block opposed to the right, which had it similarly. The seats are divided after the d'hondt method, first among the blocks, then the block seats are divided among the sharing parties - the largest party picks up the excess in an technical union - the socialdemocrats (the 10 seat party) got 46.6% of the vote, but 52.6% of the seats, since none of the 4 smaller parties (including us) picked up enough to grab a second seat.

The voter turnout usually helps the mayoral party, as people who do not generally vote decide mostly on "am I satisfied or not", if satisfied its the mayor that gets the credit and if not, its the opposition candidate(s). Here we have a pretty well run municipality, so mayoral help.

National tendencies kicked in much harder than expected though - we have sufferd a massive blow in polls due to joining government (voters have been used to us being the cooperative party that says what they want - pulling the result left when we have ghavd a socialdemocrat for PM - we still do, only now we don't do so publicly, which translates to a hit in the polls (and now at the election, though this is local and not national.

Lastly, the mayor had a reflection that last time they had no ethnic non-danes on the lsit (this time they did), thus losing out on an appeal to the otherwise ethnically inclined (I hope that doesn't sound racist - it isn't meant to be in any way, its just "what word do we use to not be prejudiced - when every word gets hijacked by the ones that want to use it derogatorily"), and just previous to the last election a major reform of school districts had just gone through, so part of our vote may have been punishment towards the socialdemocrats.

I actually buy the mayors reasoning more than the national tendencies, because while the leftist party (even leftier than us) did get in, it was at the expense of the one that was somewhere between us and them, and only that one seat, while our three seats went to the social democrats.

That being said, I've recieved an email abvout the agreement on who gets what, though I'm not sure if it is fully official, so I won't share that now, ut we have come out better than we "should" have based purely on election results - political influence and alliances are a good thing though.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Amirya » Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:38 pm

So, question for those who know more about this stuff than I do.

I've been reading about the couple in Ohio who are accused of child abandonment for giving their 9 year old son to CPS workers (people make a big stink about the son being adopted, but that's somewhat irrelevant to my question).

It makes me curious, why is it abandonment to give a 9 year old to CPS, but it's different if it's either Safe Haven laws or giving up for adoption at birth? Aren't the parents technically still abandoning the infant to the system? Why does one act warrant prosecution, but the other doesn't?

This question doesn't apply if the child, regardless of age, is dumped somewhere else that is not a legal organization supposedly protecting children.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fridmarr » Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:27 pm

There's certainly quite a big difference for the child, when you compare the effects of this to an infant versus a 9 year old. I don't think it's generally ever legal (even under safe haven laws) to abandon a 9 year old.

I don't think CPS is generally considered a Safe Haven place anyhow, but that's besides the point. There are some actions that can be taken if you are having issues with your child (foster care etc.), but I don't think you can't just drop the kid off one day, there's a process.

That said, I don't know the details of this case, I'm just responding to the points you mentioned.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Amirya » Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:13 pm

But see, that's what I'm confused about. Either way, safe haven or CPS, you aren't dumping said kid in the alley behind the grocery store and a dollar. So why is one abandonment and one not? Is it solely based on psychological reasoning, that infants haven't bonded yet? Then why is there such a short window for safe haven (depending on states, I've seen anyway from 3 days to 60 days)?

I don't have any monster spawn, nor will I, but it got me to wondering. Either way, the minor is being given into the state's custody.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fridmarr » Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:45 am

I'm sure the child's psychology is part of it. But also, if you've committed to being the caretaker of the child, then you've assumed a certain amount of responsibility. Even if you can't take care of the child anymore, you seek out help and follow the proper channels (even if it leads to turning the child over to the state) which are there to help you and the child. Dropping the kid off somewhere out of the blue is irresponsible to say the least.

You generally can't just dump a 9 year old behind a building or in an alley anyhow, they are mobile and smart. Odds are that pretty much no matter where they dropped him off, he would have found his way into the hands of a Safe Haven.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Skye1013 » Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:19 pm

I know Stonekettle has been linked here previously, but this article actually hits a few of the topics we've discussed about what's wrong with our current system... and some potential fixes.

http://www.stonekettle.com/2013/11/take ... art-1.html
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:39 pm

http://bangordailynews.com/2013/12/02/p ... n-january/

I think I remember something similar in a novel... Oh yeah...
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:12 pm

http://world.time.com/2013/12/09/israel ... l-service/

1)Maybe the security costs would not be so high if he would stop with the saber-rattling
2)And I'm sure he can afford it, given the 3 Billion USD Israel gets in grants EVERY FUCKING YEAR.

Then there's the whole Mandela being buddies with the PLO and Yasser Arafat back in the day, which obviously didnt earn him any sympathizers there.

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby fuzzygeek » Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:28 pm

Klaudandus wrote:http://bangordailynews.com/2013/12/02/politics/lepages-efforts-to-remove-child-labor-barriers-to-continue-in-january/

I think I remember something similar in a novel... Oh yeah...
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That doesn't strike me as being a very apt comparison. FTA:
“I’m all for not allowing a 12-year-old to work 40 hours,” said LePage to Downeast magazine for an interview that was published this month. “But a 12-year-old working eight to 10 hours a week or a 14-year-old working 12 to 15 hours a week is not bad.”

Based on his own experience as a child, LePage argues allowing kids to work at younger ages could instill a healthy work ethic and lead to other successes later in life.

.....

“We were just trying to make it easier for kids already getting work permits,” said Picard. “We’re talking about summer employment here. We’re talking about the small mom-and-pop places where minors serve ice cream and bus boys at a restaurant.


He's attempting to streamline the existing process, not put kids in the coal mines.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:32 pm

I'd buy that, if he were to say that kids earn full wage. That isn't the case.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby fuzzygeek » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:48 pm

Klaudandus wrote:I'd buy that, if he were to say that kids earn full wage. That isn't the case.


Kids are already getting work permits; the current process takes three weeks. Why not streamline the process?

And I'd argue kids aren't getting full wage because their work isn't worth full wage.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fivelives » Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:01 am

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, etc. I can see this going horribly wrong, since it'll be cheaper to hire a bunch of kids to do factory work than adults, and at 10-14 hours per week they wouldn't even need benefits. And that would obviously never be a thought in a factory owner's mind.

Instead, why not leave it as is, with the kids who want summer jobs going around mowing lawns, running errands, or selling rocks. Or getting an allowance for doing chores and learning the same work ethic this guy is spouting off about?

And my information could be wrong, but don't you have to be 16 to get a work permit?
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