LGBT rights discussion
Moderators: Aergis, Invisusira
Re: LGBT rights discussion
And the guy that made a painting of Putin and Medeyev in lingerie had to flee the country or risk getting a polonium injection.
The Element of Forum Hyperbole

---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)

---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)
-
Klaudandus - Posts: 9723
- Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
- Location: Texas' Armpit
Re: LGBT rights discussion
Klaudandus wrote:And the guy that made a painting of Putin and Medeyev in lingerie had to flee the country or risk getting a polonium injection.
Polonium is for those who do manage to flee the country. Those who stay get thrown into plain old torture-prisons.
If you are not the flame, you're the fuel.
-
Passionario - Posts: 2417
- Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:52 am
Re: LGBT rights discussion
The Element of Forum Hyperbole

---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)

---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)
-
Klaudandus - Posts: 9723
- Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
- Location: Texas' Armpit
Re: LGBT rights discussion
Pandering for votes? Almost certainly, it's cute to hear an Australian politician with a real chance of being Prime Minister say this though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdU3ooAZSH8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdU3ooAZSH8
-
Levantine - Posts: 7367
- Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:48 pm
- Location: NQ, Aus
Re: LGBT rights discussion
The Element of Forum Hyperbole

---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)

---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)
-
Klaudandus - Posts: 9723
- Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
- Location: Texas' Armpit
Re: LGBT rights discussion
The Element of Forum Hyperbole

---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)

---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)
-
Klaudandus - Posts: 9723
- Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
- Location: Texas' Armpit
Re: LGBT rights discussion
I'm about half convinced that the entire tea party is nothing but a giant conspiracy on the part of late night talk show hosts to provide themselves with easy comedy material.
- I'm not Jesus, but I can turn water into Kool-Aid.
- A Sergeant in motion outranks an officer who doesn't know what the hell is going on.
- A demolitions specialist at a flat run outranks everybody.
- A Sergeant in motion outranks an officer who doesn't know what the hell is going on.
- A demolitions specialist at a flat run outranks everybody.
-
Fivelives - Posts: 2804
- Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:55 pm
Re: LGBT rights discussion
The Element of Forum Hyperbole

---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)

---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)
-
Klaudandus - Posts: 9723
- Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
- Location: Texas' Armpit
Re: LGBT rights discussion
Klaudandus wrote:http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/18/tea-party-leader-proposes-class-action-lawsuit-against-homosexuality/
How can you propose a class action lawsuit against...sexual orientation?
Klaudandus wrote:http://hypervocal.com/news/2013/russia-gay-parents/
Holy shit.
Well that's not new, Gay parents don't have rights to adopt children, or marry or have any form of partnership in Russia.
Last edited by Io.Draco on Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:36 am, edited 3 times in total.

-
Io.Draco - Posts: 1192
- Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:33 am
Re: LGBT rights discussion
Io.Draco wrote:Klaudandus wrote:http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/18/tea-party-leader-proposes-class-action-lawsuit-against-homosexuality/
How can you propose a class action lawsuit against...sexual orientation?
It's the tea party... don't look for logic.
"me no gay, me friends gay, me no like you call me gay, you dumb dumb" -bldavis
"Here are the values that I stand for: I stand for honesty, equality, kindness, compassion, treating people the way you wanna be treated, and helping those in need. To me, those are traditional values. That’s what I stand for." -Ellen Degeneres
"I'm not going to censor myself to comfort your ignorance." -Jon Stewart
Horde: Clopin Dylon Sharkbait Xiaman Metria Metapriest
Alliance: Schatze Aleks Deegee Baileyi Sotanaht Danfer Shazta Rawrsalot Roobyroo
"Here are the values that I stand for: I stand for honesty, equality, kindness, compassion, treating people the way you wanna be treated, and helping those in need. To me, those are traditional values. That’s what I stand for." -Ellen Degeneres
"I'm not going to censor myself to comfort your ignorance." -Jon Stewart
Horde: Clopin Dylon Sharkbait Xiaman Metria Metapriest
Alliance: Schatze Aleks Deegee Baileyi Sotanaht Danfer Shazta Rawrsalot Roobyroo
-
Skye1013 - Maintankadonor
- Posts: 3687
- Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 5:47 am
- Location: JBPH-Hickam, Hawaii
Re: LGBT rights discussion
I've gotten so fucking tired of this entire debate. Both sides are equally vicious in their fight and if you, God forbid, refuse to be sucked in this debate you will be slammed by both equally as bad with insults and threats because I suppose for the far right it's "If you are not with us then you are working against God's word" and for the liberals it's "If you're not with us then you are against us which makes you a racist, intolerant, homophobic bigot."
I hate both sides equally and think they can go fuck themselves.
I hate both sides equally and think they can go fuck themselves.

-
Io.Draco - Posts: 1192
- Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:33 am
Re: LGBT rights discussion
In a sense, I agree.
I've had the unfortunate luck of crossing paths with two trans-whatever. To them, any sort of criticism or disagreement, not even tangentially related to their sexuality, means you're transphobic... what kind of made-up word is that! I ended up just disassociating myself from that social circle that included those douchenozzles rather than deal with them -- but trust me, I came close at exploding at them and going on a lengthy rant.
I came close to telling them "The only reason why I am in favor of LGBT rights is because of my friends, because if it wasn't for them, I'd be against them solely based on what a horrible person YOU are".
I have no real dog in the LGBT rights fight. In a solely personal level, I am not affected with allowing or banning. I choose to stand with my friends in the fight for their rights, because it feels right, because it's the decent thing to do.
But there are people that just make me wanna flip a table and go "fuck it guys" -- like that waitress with the fake receipt.
I've had the unfortunate luck of crossing paths with two trans-whatever. To them, any sort of criticism or disagreement, not even tangentially related to their sexuality, means you're transphobic... what kind of made-up word is that! I ended up just disassociating myself from that social circle that included those douchenozzles rather than deal with them -- but trust me, I came close at exploding at them and going on a lengthy rant.
I came close to telling them "The only reason why I am in favor of LGBT rights is because of my friends, because if it wasn't for them, I'd be against them solely based on what a horrible person YOU are".
I have no real dog in the LGBT rights fight. In a solely personal level, I am not affected with allowing or banning. I choose to stand with my friends in the fight for their rights, because it feels right, because it's the decent thing to do.
But there are people that just make me wanna flip a table and go "fuck it guys" -- like that waitress with the fake receipt.
The Element of Forum Hyperbole

---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)

---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)
-
Klaudandus - Posts: 9723
- Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
- Location: Texas' Armpit
Re: LGBT rights discussion
I'd be against them solely based on what a horrible person YOU are.
This is exactly how I personally feel about the LGBT movement and in general social justice warriors, including feminists.

-
Io.Draco - Posts: 1192
- Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:33 am
Re: LGBT rights discussion
I can understand that. People can be very obnoxious. I do think it's important to separate the cause from the people though.
At the end of the day, I find that there are two objectives I try very hard to meet. First, I need to be able to look myself in the mirror, and know that what I believe in is right/moral. I don't want to believe in something because someone is influencing me. Whether that someone is a family member, an activist, an actor, a friend, a politician with a certain letter next to his name etc. I'm responsible to myself in my beliefs.
Secondly, I need to be open to the fact that I could be wrong, and willing to listen to the other side. Both can be challenging at times, especially the second, but I've gotten into the habit of reminding myself of these concepts and that helps. I think having that mindset allows me to utterly disregard the seething vile that can be spewed by either side of an issue. It also opened my eyes a bit to exactly how similar both sides on most issues are.
At the end of the day, I find that there are two objectives I try very hard to meet. First, I need to be able to look myself in the mirror, and know that what I believe in is right/moral. I don't want to believe in something because someone is influencing me. Whether that someone is a family member, an activist, an actor, a friend, a politician with a certain letter next to his name etc. I'm responsible to myself in my beliefs.
Secondly, I need to be open to the fact that I could be wrong, and willing to listen to the other side. Both can be challenging at times, especially the second, but I've gotten into the habit of reminding myself of these concepts and that helps. I think having that mindset allows me to utterly disregard the seething vile that can be spewed by either side of an issue. It also opened my eyes a bit to exactly how similar both sides on most issues are.
- Fridmarr
- Global Mod
- Posts: 6465
- Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:03 am
Re: LGBT rights discussion
To me there are just "rights". Any time there's a word put in front of "rights" that segregates a group of people such that their "rights" can be treated differently, then I have a problem.
Black rights
Gay rights
Trans-whatever rights
Women's rights
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. It's just "rights".
My mother-in-law amuses me by saying "I'm tired of hearing all these gays wanting special laws passed just for them". If there weren't special laws passed preventing them from doing things in the first place, there would be no need for them to have special laws passed for them now!
Black rights
Gay rights
Trans-whatever rights
Women's rights
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. It's just "rights".
My mother-in-law amuses me by saying "I'm tired of hearing all these gays wanting special laws passed just for them". If there weren't special laws passed preventing them from doing things in the first place, there would be no need for them to have special laws passed for them now!
- Koatanga
- Posts: 1727
- Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:46 pm
Re: LGBT rights discussion
Pretty valid point.
It's just that some people just really stink it up for everyone else.
It's just that some people just really stink it up for everyone else.
The Element of Forum Hyperbole

---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)

---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)
-
Klaudandus - Posts: 9723
- Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
- Location: Texas' Armpit
Re: LGBT rights discussion
Koatanga wrote:My mother-in-law amuses me by saying "I'm tired of hearing all these gays wanting special laws passed just for them". If there weren't special laws passed preventing them from doing things in the first place, there would be no need for them to have special laws passed for them now!
Very important point. That's why I think that it doesn't matter that there's douchebags on both sides. It's obvious to me what the right side is anyway - I don't decide what's right and wrong based on my dislike for certain people. It's mostly the other way around.
- Paxen
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:38 am
Re: LGBT rights discussion
The correct approach is not to pass more laws. The correct approach is to repeal old laws.
There's the mindset that "whatever is not explicitly banned, is permitted," as opposed to "whatever is not explicitly permitted, is banned."
As a society I think we're better off with the first, but I see a lot of lawmakers with the mentality of the second.
There's the mindset that "whatever is not explicitly banned, is permitted," as opposed to "whatever is not explicitly permitted, is banned."
As a society I think we're better off with the first, but I see a lot of lawmakers with the mentality of the second.
-
fuzzygeek - Maintankadonor
- Posts: 3447
- Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:58 pm
Re: LGBT rights discussion
Not so clear-cut when it comes to enforcing non-discrimination, though. Sometimes special laws can be necessary, since a cultural change doesn't come about overnight, but can be helped along with legislation.
(And yes, then you get into those arguments about at what point the laws are no longer necessary.)
(And yes, then you get into those arguments about at what point the laws are no longer necessary.)
- KysenMurrin
- Posts: 5209
- Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:37 am
- Location: UK
Re: LGBT rights discussion
fuzzygeek wrote:The correct approach is not to pass more laws. The correct approach is to repeal old laws.
There's the mindset that "whatever is not explicitly banned, is permitted," as opposed to "whatever is not explicitly permitted, is banned."
As a society I think we're better off with the first, but I see a lot of lawmakers with the mentality of the second.
That all depends on the law. If there is a law passed that says "marriage is between a man and a woman who are not directly related by blood", then if you repeal it some yahoo is going to marry a goat just to make the point that the law shouldn't have been repealed. If you pass a law amending the previous to read "two people" instead of "a man and a woman" then you don't have to deal with the yahoos so much.
- Koatanga
- Posts: 1727
- Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:46 pm
Re: LGBT rights discussion
KysenMurrin wrote:Not so clear-cut when it comes to enforcing non-discrimination, though. Sometimes special laws can be necessary, since a cultural change doesn't come about overnight, but can be helped along with legislation.
I agree. It's unfortunate when certain movements become institutionalized, such that they end up promulgating what they're purportedly against, because if they actually succeeded they'd have no reason to exist (and employ their huge bureaucracy, receive Federal funds, solicit donations, etc.). Some institutions may say they're against X, but end up (directly or indirectly, purposefully or by accident) instigating or preserving X.
Koatanga wrote:That all depends on the law. If there is a law passed that says "marriage is between a man and a woman who are not directly related by blood", then if you repeal it some yahoo is going to marry a goat just to make the point that the law shouldn't have been repealed. If you pass a law amending the previous to read "two people" instead of "a man and a woman" then you don't have to deal with the yahoos so much.
What's wrong if some yahoo wants to marry his goat, assuming the goat consents?
-
fuzzygeek - Maintankadonor
- Posts: 3447
- Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:58 pm
Re: LGBT rights discussion
fuzzygeek wrote:What's wrong if some yahoo wants to marry his goat, assuming the goat consents?
That would be the problem.
- Paxen
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:38 am
Re: LGBT rights discussion
Paxen wrote:fuzzygeek wrote:What's wrong if some yahoo wants to marry his goat, assuming the goat consents?
That would be the problem.
Exactly.
-
fuzzygeek - Maintankadonor
- Posts: 3447
- Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:58 pm
Re: LGBT rights discussion
You wouldn't need some yahoo that would do it to make a point. There would be actual people doing it for actual "normal" reasons (normal here being reasons most people would use toward their chosen.. erhmm.. partner (I guess works best here)).
The question (in my mind) isn't so much whether the goat would consent - I mean, animals don't have a right to not consent to significantly worse (objectively) things, say, like being slaughtered (literally) - but more whether the goat would endure duress.
This is getting rather far afield though.
The question (in my mind) isn't so much whether the goat would consent - I mean, animals don't have a right to not consent to significantly worse (objectively) things, say, like being slaughtered (literally) - but more whether the goat would endure duress.
This is getting rather far afield though.
-
Nooska - Posts: 1713
- Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:55 am
Re: LGBT rights discussion
There's a lawsuit pending in New York that would grant chimpanzees personhood...
- Amirya
- Maintankadonor
- Posts: 2959
- Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:59 am
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest