what about LFR?

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what about LFR?

Postby oldboyz » Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:30 am

i'm very curious to have your opinion on LFR

it looks to me that LFR is the nightmare of all of us, or... the best tool to threat your child "if you dont eat your soup, i send you to LFR!"

i had to often run LFR the past, (i've 7alt 90), a little bit for stuff, too much because of the legendary quest, most for quick Vaillance cap, i've seen things no one should
now all these reasons have gone, i've completely stop LFR, thanks gods
(i've still 3 alts without their back, but no time for them, and - i - don't want - to - go - anymore - in - LFR - damn it)

now flex-oqueue is becoming some kind of new LFR contagion... (those last 3 week were horrors in P3&P4), should deserve an another topic on it :mrgreen:




what i hated the most in LFR : "big" player who didn't care at all ("cauz lol lfr is garbage") the vicious circle of no hope!! no one do any attention, neither i am, no one push the number, why should i too? wipe is the fault of the other 24 folks, they don't deserve me, afk follow for the win (and so everyone is waiting other to do the job). Explaining strat is futile, we try, we saw no result, burn all in hell
(even me i've to confess, that many time, i just auto atttacked while reading web, just for my sanity :roll: )

now that most serious raider don't go anymore in LFR, it loot like it became even worse (i've heard some folks saw too many determintation buff on each boss), wondering the reality. i don't want to see by melself :mrgreen:
what's the new on the front? any survivor to tell us?

so sad i can't have all the stats (number of raid, number of leaver, number of determination buff), may be most of LFR are fine, and i'm just a black cat... :oops:
or...
we are all black cats, hahaha!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


LFR is about :
1- how motivate good player to come and play their best
2- how help the worse one to improve

Blizcom's answer : 4 levels of difficulty... (from mythic designed for the most dedicated to LFR for the most casual) GG :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:



what i've dream about LFR : score!! how nice should it be to have a score each time you kill a boss
bad stuff should give you debuff (and each time you take dommage, you do less dommage&heal), at the end of the fight : the less debuff, the more score :wink:
kill special adds&stuff should give you more score
of course, score is not that easy (except for dps folks ^^), but even for tank and heal, Blizz should propose us something (for healer, bonus when they heal low life. for tank the more they avoid, the more score, so to time correctly their CD and active mitigation)
i'm quite sure it would motivate most people to improve
it would allow then ranking etc (to the raid, but to WW too)
ranking should allow tittle/Achiev. and bonus loot or kind of

of course it would required some serious ressource to implement it but it look to me ridiculous compare to all the $ blizz get from us :D (and the fact that LFR could be more popular and add more addictitivy!)


so sad there was nothing about LFR in blizcom 2013, means no one care, vicious circle is gonna stay for long
Last edited by oldboyz on Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: what about LFR?

Postby Paxen » Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:17 am

My problem with LFR is that quick kills is what is expected. That means there no sense of accomplishment when you do kill a boss (after all, it's LFR) and endless frustration when you don't down it.

If the outcome is either a shrug or endless frustration, there's not much point in going in there.
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Re: what about LFR?

Postby Worldie » Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:42 am

To me LFR is just a glorified heroic dungeon.

I wish there was a way to actually punish afk people.
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Re: what about LFR?

Postby Io.Draco » Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:10 am

Worldie wrote:To me LFR is just a glorified heroic dungeon.

I wish there was a way to actually punish afk people.



The fun part is when you are trying to kick them but some dumbass decides to pull the boss, oh joy. Also when you say "glorified heroic dungeon" I have to ask of which dungeons are you talking about in what expansion? :P

My biggest annoyance is the determination buff, seriously Blizzard you are going to REWARD scrubs for failing by increasing their damage, health and healing?
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Re: what about LFR?

Postby Extermi » Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:30 am

Worldie wrote:To me LFR is just a glorified heroic dungeon.


It is more a glorified normal dungeon. But then I´m not talking about the heroic dungeons of today, obviously, but back in time when a heroic dungeon was difficult and required coordination, teamwork, crowd control and all that for succeeding.

I stopped doing LFR before even completing wing 4, out of sheer boredom - I believe I will at some time finish it but it never was an enjoyable experience, you do this only for the gear.
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Re: what about LFR?

Postby Worldie » Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:38 am

Io.Draco wrote:My biggest annoyance is the determination buff, seriously Blizzard you are going to REWARD scrubs for failing by increasing their damage, health and healing?

Sad thing on this subject, last week i was tanking LFR with my tank buddy, on downfall, first 2 bosses went down easily. We get to Garrosh, while the RP plays, someone actually proposed "Should we wipe a couple times to get stacks?"
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: what about LFR?

Postby Koatanga » Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:18 pm

Io.Draco wrote:My biggest annoyance is the determination buff, seriously Blizzard you are going to REWARD scrubs for failing by increasing their damage, health and healing?

Something had to be done - people would scatter like cockroaches after one wipe. With determination, they know that they will eventually succeed regardless of how bad the group is, so they might suffer through a couple of wipes.

Having said that, I avoid LFR where possible. I should be running it to get things, but it's just too painful to deal with, and I don't have 3 hours to clear one wing.

I guess I've gone soft - I once spent 3 hours clearing Shadow Labs.
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Re: what about LFR?

Postby Io.Draco » Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:19 pm

How about making the leaving system more punishing, then you would see less leavers. The reason people leave is that they are not punished at all for it.
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Re: what about LFR?

Postby halabar » Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:27 pm

Io.Draco wrote:How about making the leaving system more punishing, then you would see less leavers. The reason people leave is that they are not punished at all for it.


That could trap people with the trolls. Need to deal with the trolls first.
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Re: what about LFR?

Postby cdan » Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:31 pm

"Your lack of activity has marked you as afk in an instance, you will be teleported to the nearest meeting stone" - Blizz autokick = simple.
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Re: what about LFR?

Postby Io.Draco » Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:37 pm

halabar wrote:
Io.Draco wrote:How about making the leaving system more punishing, then you would see less leavers. The reason people leave is that they are not punished at all for it.


That could trap people with the trolls. Need to deal with the trolls first.


That's why we have the awesome vote kicking system.

Honestly I'd take the trolls any fucking day over the bore that LFR is atm. ( Although ideally I"d want LFR completely removed...not that Blizzard would ever do that ).
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Re: what about LFR?

Postby Fetzie » Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:58 pm

Koatanga wrote:
Io.Draco wrote:My biggest annoyance is the determination buff, seriously Blizzard you are going to REWARD scrubs for failing by increasing their damage, health and healing?

Something had to be done - people would scatter like cockroaches after one wipe. With determination, they know that they will eventually succeed regardless of how bad the group is, so they might suffer through a couple of wipes.

Having said that, I avoid LFR where possible. I should be running it to get things, but it's just too painful to deal with, and I don't have 3 hours to clear one wing.

I guess I've gone soft - I once spent 3 hours clearing Shadow Labs.


Yeah, but you spent those 3 hours with people that you knew (and probably liked).
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Re: what about LFR?

Postby econ21 » Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:41 pm

LFR is very variable. Some days, I feel like the OP but more often than not, I feel the opposite. There are many objective factors influencing that variation but I suspect a lot of it is subjective - to do with one's own state of mind and expectations.

Are you willing to spend 60 minutes and wipe 4-6 times to kill Garrosh in LFR? That's probably a tough sell for most people on this forum and for me in the future, no doubt. But so far, I've enjoyed doing so - I haven't done the fight on any other difficulty, so it's quite interesting me (aka seeing the content) and maybe it will be good practice. Most of the others in LFR I am with seem to feel the same, as they seem to try hard and take their knocks without protest.

Are you willing to watch two incompetent tanks wipes the raid on Immerseus LFR because they can't taunt switch? That's a tougher sell for me and most LFRers (cue mass exodus after second Immerseus wipe last Sunday evening).

I suspect I have a higher opinion than most of LFR because I usually tank there on my main. You can't really carry a raid as a tank in LFR anymore, but you can reduce the risk of wipes quite a lot. When I am not tanking on an alt, I tend to silently rage at failing tanks (although many are very good).

I also find LFR rather fascinating socially - the dynamics between 25 strangers trying to work together are really unpredictable and interesting to watch, especially if you are trying to engineer a positive outcome. It's like participating in some convoluted psychological trial.

There are problems with LFR and no doubt it could be improved, but I feel that a lot of the negativity from more progressed players is unhelpful - you don't like it, don't run it. The rewards are so marginal, you can't say you have to run it. (I'm ostensibly there for some tier pieces, but only have 1 to show for my efforts). Have the wisdom to know what you can can't change and the grace to accept it.
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Re: what about LFR?

Postby Worldie » Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:48 pm

Usually "high ranked players" still have to run LFR for alts. Most flex pugs demand 535/540+ ilvl, and getting 528 items from LFR helps a ton to get in there.

I never set foot in LFR on my main, but my alts kinda have to if they want any improvement in their ilvl.
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Re: what about LFR?

Postby Arnock » Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:11 pm

I quit WoW shortly before Cataclysm's launch and stayed away until this summer, where I came back for a few months after a serious bout of nostalgia.

When I initially started playing again, I was looking forward to LFR raids, I knew they were supposed to be easier than normals, but I figured that there would be enough of a challenge to keep me entertained, seeing as I didn't have the time to commit to a dedicated raid schedule.

After I hit 90 and got enough gear, I joined in a few runs, and it was one of the most boring experiences in my wow career. Noone in the group would explain the fights. Eventually, after I asked, someone told me to just ignore mechanics.

So I did.

We went in, the tanks pulled, we killed the bosses, and the moved on.

I ran several more LFR runs, and think I actually was geared enough to move on to the second tier groups, but I just couldn't find the motivation to continue.

I really miss TBC/wrath.
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Re: what about LFR?

Postby Andurin » Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:41 am

Sometimes tho, you get a really nice group of people in LFR. Last night we had a DK tank that was keeping the group together on his own. He knew what to do, guide people where needed, keep the group going and kill the second boss in gates of retribution without a second tank. And we proceeded to kill Dark shamans and Nazgrim without any trouble just by the guiding people in the right direction ^^

On the other hand, I also did have the first part of Throne of Thunder with this amazing Resto shaman. Never had I met anyone that I would want to strangle ingame so hard as this guy. But, thanks to the kick system, he had a 4h kick protection -.-

I`m not sure on wich side I am on in this discussion. Yes, I wouldnt mind having better tools to get rid of annoying people. But on the other hand, often its not really needed.
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Re: what about LFR?

Postby econ21 » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:03 am

Arnock wrote:... someone told me to just ignore mechanics.

... I actually was geared enough to move on to the second tier groups, but I just couldn't find the motivation to continue.


You should try tanking LFR - it's much more engaging imo and it really helps if you do know the mechanics.

You also were experiencing "old" content. When a LFR wing just opens, things are much more interesting. SoO LFR is still quite challenging for many raids and hence can take an hour or more to complete just one wing.

Worldie wrote:...but my alts kinda have to if they want any improvement in their ilvl.


I know but I sometimes feel a lot of the problem with LFR is the bad attitude of the people running it. A more constructive, positive and cooperative spirit would go a long way. It's rather like the bizarre mentality in random BGs, where the losing teams often seem to dissolve into cursing each other in chat. It's a game - have fun or at least stop spoiling the fun of others.
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Re: what about LFR?

Postby Arnock » Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:13 pm

I did start tanking a few runs, after finally got a tank set together.

But I could barely even find the motivation to want to gear up to progress to later content, I was having more fun soloing old raids than I was in the new areas themselves.
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Re: what about LFR?

Postby Winkle » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:34 am

Arnock wrote: I didn't have the time to commit to a dedicated raid schedule.


Arnock wrote:I really miss TBC/wrath.


Content with a similar or perhaps even harder difficulty is available today. Along with perhaps the easier 10man stuff in the guise of flex.

Do you miss the content or just miss having the time to play how you want?

Tanking in LFR can be quite fun at times, i queued for LFR Garrosh the other day just to see how it was, turns out that if you know the fight as a tank you can basically pull the whole group through with you.
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Re: what about LFR?

Postby Arnock » Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:53 pm

Winkle wrote:Content with a similar or perhaps even harder difficulty is available today. Along with perhaps the easier 10man stuff in the guise of flex.

Do you miss the content or just miss having the time to play how you want?




A little bit of both.

Plus a general dissatisfaction with the direction blizz has taken the game, and I'm sure that my glasses are very much rose tinted.

I don't really like a lot of the changes made to Paladins, I barely recognized the class now, and most of the reasons that I originally liked playing my paladin are not really valid anymore.

I'm not a huge fan of how homogenized a lot of the classes have become.

Between LFR, LFG, and realms "merging" in low-pop zones, a huge amount of the server communities that I re-visited just felt dead.

Pandaria, and now this new upcoming expac both feel a bit.. uninpsired, lore-wise. In TBC, Wotlk and Cataclysm you had Illidan, Arthas and Deathwing as looming threats, whereas Pandaria just feels like "Oh, here's a new continent, now with pandas and more content!"

I don't know, wow just felt like it was slowly transitioning from an MMO to a single player game with a multiplayer mode.
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Re: what about LFR?

Postby Flex » Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:49 pm

Arnock wrote:Pandaria, and now this new upcoming expac both feel a bit.. uninpsired, lore-wise. In TBC, Wotlk and Cataclysm you had Illidan, Arthas and Deathwing as looming threats, whereas Pandaria just feels like "Oh, here's a new continent, now with pandas and more content!"


Highly disagree with this. The lore for the entire expansion and Pandaren in general has been outstanding.
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Re: what about LFR?

Postby Brute » Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:56 am

I love that LFR exists because it allows someone like me to see all the content. Pandas and Cata are the only expansions that I actually cleared all of the raids, and I've been playing since release. I've never been "hardcore" enough (i.e., had enough free time) to join a serious guild with good players long term and show up for every raid, and it's only gotten worse as I've gotten older and added more things to my plate.

I don't particularly enjoy the experience beyond killing each boss the first couple of times, though. I played Pandas for a month, got max level, looted the isle, participated in clearing every raid through LFR, and seeing as how all my friends have quit, I'm done till Warlords comes out except maybe for screwing around some on my unlimited trial account. There's a surprising amount of content in the first 20 levels.
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Re: what about LFR?

Postby Io.Draco » Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:40 am

I don't particularly enjoy the experience beyond killing each boss the first couple of times, though.


Who the fuck does? Not talking just about LFR but any boss on any difficulty get's dull after you've killed them a couple of times. For certain bosses it does take longer then others but it happens.
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Re: what about LFR?

Postby theckhd » Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:41 pm

Arnock wrote:I don't really like a lot of the changes made to Paladins, I barely recognized the class now, and most of the reasons that I originally liked playing my paladin are not really valid anymore.

Keep in mind that this is a fairly subjective statement. I feel that paladins are a lot more fun to play nowadays than they were in Wrath, TBC, or Vanilla. And the general consensus from the community has been the same. There will always be people that feel differently though; you'll never please everyone with any design.

I also don't really agree with your homogenization point, but that's on game design and encounter design principles (highly mismatched skill sets leads to a lot of class stacking, and general feelings of the game being "broken").
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Re: what about LFR?

Postby SteveL » Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:36 am

I like LFR on the whole. I've got through a couple of oqueue flex runs, but I don't normally have the time to do that.

My faith in LFR was helped a little last night. A Druid queued as healer, and then said "this is so easy, so I'm going to DPS rather than heal". He vastly out-geared the tanks and proceeded to pull aggro most of the time, while bitching and moaning that the tanks were terrible. I voted to kick him, with no luck and then a little later on, the vote kick window appeared and lo and behold, Mr annoying Druid was gone. After his removal the rest of the run was fun and everyone had a good time. Just goes to show that one bad apple can ruin the run for 24 other people, which is the main problem with LFR.

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