[10H] Siegecrafter Blackfuse (Guide)

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[10H] Siegecrafter Blackfuse (Guide)

Postby Incalcando » Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:59 pm

Hello everyone my name is Incalcando, I am tanking for and GM of a guild called Flat Earth Society on Sunstrider-EU. Since I have quite a lot of free time these days I decided to write a couple of "guides" on the harder fights of the instance, listing all the things I learned through a lot of progression wipes, and which had I known from pull no.1 would have sped up our progression by a lot. Keep in mind that I am NOT a theorycrafter, I've mostly learned how to play this game based on my own experiences, so it can be that some of my talent/glyph choices are not super optimal on paper, however they worked perfectly for me.

If you choose to read this little guide of mine, I would strongly recommend also watching our kill video of it to fully understand what I mean. Unfortunately that kill was basically the most horrendous attempt "standing-out-of-fire-wise" for me, resulting in endless trolling from my guild, but it still demonstrates how I deal with the boss and shredder.

Video in question: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0Bh-u5zX4U

Anyway, let's get to it!



General overview, tank swapping and stack numbers

1. Tank no.1 picks up the boss
2. at 3 stacks tank no.2 taunts
3. tank no.1 kills shredder BEFORE tank no.2 gets 3 stacks
4. tank no.1 taunts and gets a 4th stack
5. tank no.2 takes the boss back
6. tank no.1 kills second shredder
7. tank no.2 goes to 6 stacks
8. Tank no.1 takes the boss(now has zero stacks) and keeps till 3 stacks while no.2 is killig off his shredder

After that point we go back to step no.1 and rince and repeat.


How to use your offensive and defensive CDs in either role

If you are tank no.1 (recommended role):

Before anything else, make sure nobody ninja pulls, since the boss applies the first stack INSTANTLY to the first person that aggroed it. That means, no matter how fast you react and taunt you will still miss the stack. The first 2 stacks are irrelevant, your health pool alone should be enough for you to survive. For the third stack, an UNGLYPHED DP will be enough. Then move on to the shredder, pop AW (preferably in a way that it's still active when the death from above happens) and kill it. Use a sawblade to help you. Optimally you want it dead before it casts a 4th overload and certainly before your co-tank gets a third stack. After you are done, taunt the boss, and take a 4th stack, just DP is enough, save your GoAK and AD for emergencies. The next shredder should be easier with 4 stacks + HA, which should be popped instantly. Goes without saying that Execution Sentence should be used again. When you are done with this, you are carefree for a while, wait till your co-tank gets 6 stacks (and for safety do a Hand of Sac on him for his 6th). Now for the 3rd shredder that you take (after of course getting 3 stacks), you won't have any sawblades or fire to help you out, since it'll be just after a magnet phase. Just pop both your offensince CDs to make sure you kill it. For the fourth one you can have a sawblade again.

If you are tank no.2 in the list (not from personal experience, I was the other role always):

You take 2 stacks no problem after your co-tank took 3. For your third use DP. Fourth can be handled by GoAK. For the fifth, DP + external should be enough and for the final one, use AD alone, you will end up not losing any HP and it'll proc saving you from death. The shredder with 6 stacks should be a joke even without CDs, I would recommend just using your offensive CDs after 4 stacks or so on the boss for added DPS on it.


Handling the shredder

If there is a sawblade, kite it on top of it. There is absolutely no need to utilize the flames at all, from my experience it's better if you keep it less complicated. If, however, you have flames at a convenient location, they will deal more damage on it by far. Now regarding how you should deal the damage to it. Before the shredder starts casting "Death from Above" you should aim to have it around at around 55-65%. When the shredder starts casting death from above, pool 5 HP, save your AS and 1 second into the cast use Execution Sentence. The reason is, by the time the boss hits the ground, the last couple of ticks of ES will do a MASSIVE amount of damage and basically destroy that add. As soon as the shredder hits the ground, use your AS that you saved from a distance, and then SotR from the pooled HP will finish it off quickly. Don't forget that Holy Wrath will hit like a fucking truck as well.


Talent/Glyph recommendations

Eternal Flame if you are tank no.1 (see above) and if you have 4 set. If not, stick to Sacred Shield cause you really want to use all of your holy power to do damage. As tank no.2 I'd imagine SS will be better since the boss' stack application can easily one shot you.
Execution Sentence is a no brainer here, don't even think about anything else.
As far as glyphs are concerned, DP should remain unglyphed for magic reduction, Focused Shield will greatly help your DPS. If you have 4 set, you can use glyph of word of glory for an added 3% damage without losing HP to heal, but Final Wrath is also really strong.


Let me know if you are interested in more stuff like that, any recommendations/criticism on the format are appreciated, I'm not a great writer.
Last edited by Incalcando on Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [10H] Siegecrafter Blackfuse (Guide)

Postby PsiVen » Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:10 am

Hi Inca, thanks for bringing so much detail here. We'll be hitting this guy soon enough and I'm sure this will be helpful.
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Re: [10H] Siegecrafter Blackfuse (Guide)

Postby Incalcando » Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:36 am

Hi, also got Malkrork/Spoils/Thok almost ready as well I guess I can post them here too. Hope it'll help
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Re: [10H] Siegecrafter Blackfuse (Guide)

Postby Razeoflight » Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:13 am

nice write up i also would like to thank you for your killvid on thok HC ;) was a nice guideline for me and with it we managed to kill it in a couple days (protectors trinket FTW btw :P), was even thinking making a topic about it with solo tanking and all but the research i did on it was your logs and vid so i felt it wasnt rly my place.


in any case back on topic im currently also progressing on siegecrafter 10hc currently wiping at about the 50% mark but getting there and i agree with everything ;)

small note on the tank swap we decided to go like this very very minor detail but yea both will do fine

1. Tank no.1 picks up the boss
2. at 3 stacks tank no.2 taunts
3. tank no.1 kills shredder BEFORE tank no.2 gets 3 stacks
4. tank no.1 taunts and gets a 4th (+5th) stack
5. tank no.2 takes the boss back
6. tank no.1 kills second shredder
7. tank no.2 goes to 6 (5) stacks
8. Tank no.1 takes the boss(now has zero stacks) and keeps till 3 stacks while no.2 is killing off his shredder

ES is defo a fucking beast especially if well timed luv seeying them big crits
also a side note the legendary melee dps gem is quite nice if u get lucky can see some nice dmg 2mil+ ish if u want to opt for more dmg instead of the 20% dmg reduction from the legendary tanking meta atm i do miss the tanking meta on the fight but i can defo manage without it

i also tried out the legendary dps cloak but i found dmg seemed very very weak and since the dmg is quite high with going up to 5 stacks and all them drills if u stand in the bad so i went bk to the tanking cloak


best of luck on garrosh btw and plz giv us another nice vid ^^
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Re: [10H] Siegecrafter Blackfuse (Guide)

Postby Incalcando » Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:02 am

Your tank switching seems more balanced than mine, but my co-tank was a DK, who can really take a lot of stacks better than a paladin, and also who kind of lacks the burst damage needed to kill the shredder off as easily as a paladin (or any other tank) can, so we decided it'd be best for him to take 6.

But yeah 5 stacks will make life a lot easier for you if you are on shredder duty. I wouldn't recommend DPS meta gem, when the boss gets the protective frenzy the damage becomes quite brutal and especially during progression your healers will have their hands full avoiding all sorts of crap.

But thanks for the kind words and good luck with siegecrafter, it's a real pain in the ass :P
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Re: [10H] Siegecrafter Blackfuse (Guide)

Postby samsara » Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:34 am

does this also works for 25 heroic? We are not yet at siegecrafter but i don't think thok will be a wall :)
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Re: [10H] Siegecrafter Blackfuse (Guide)

Postby Incalcando » Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:03 pm

According to dungeon journal electrostatic charge deals exactly the same amount to the tank on 25 and on 10 so yeah it should work.
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Re: [10H] Siegecrafter Blackfuse (Guide)

Postby timoseewho » Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:13 pm

Nice guide! What dictates where the empowered missile will spawn? It seems to spawn in the pie where most of the raid is stacked at, but not too sure.
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Re: [10H] Siegecrafter Blackfuse (Guide)

Postby Incalcando » Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:45 am

Yeah it's something like that, we only seemed to get them at a bad place if someone was kiting the flames on the other side and I was close to them with my shredder. If they spawn badly you just have to deal with it, it's not the end of the world, but very annoying.
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Re: [10H] Siegecrafter Blackfuse (Guide)

Postby quotey » Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:08 am

timoseewho wrote:Nice guide! What dictates where the empowered missile will spawn? It seems to spawn in the pie where most of the raid is stacked at, but not too sure.


It picks a random person (not sure if it can target tanks, but probably) and puts the first missile at the closest edge to them, then spawns the other 2 clockwise from it at the same distance everytime. So just make sure the raid is near a reasonable edge. Occasionally we had trouble with it picking people who came off the belt recently but they started coming off earlier or moving faster or something.
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Re: [10H] Siegecrafter Blackfuse (Guide)

Postby Schroom » Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:09 pm

the timer for electrostatic charge is broken for DBM and for Bigwigs. A friend of mine has the same issue. you guys too? if so, any fix? suguestions so I know when to use my Cooldowns
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Re: [10H] Siegecrafter Blackfuse (Guide)

Postby Xfighter » Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:19 am

I've been using Bigwigs and my co tank has been using DBM the last 2 weeks of progression on him without any issues being mentioned. I'm using the latest BW (I think), and no clue which he's using. *shrug*


The most I've seen the timer off by is 1-2 sec, but I just CD around 4 sec left to cover before and after in case it's early.
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Re: [10H] Siegecrafter Blackfuse (Guide)

Postby Schroom » Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:43 am

the timers aren't off. my friend is playing in a completely different guild and they killed it last week.

nonetheless she has the same problems on bigwigs that I have on DBM...

the timer starts and when it reaches 12s left it starts all over again.

the countdown is in an endless loop (imagine a canon, soundfile starts again everytime the previous one reaches 3):
Code: Select all
5,4,3,2,1
    5,4,3,2,1
        5,4,3,2,1


and so on

I'm thinking of using the stoppwatch from wow and look at it for the debuff, as it comes every 15 seconds. nonetheless it is pretty shitty. and I'm surprised it works for you...

method release a mod to fix this on bigwigs, but apparently it still bugs out.
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Re: [10H] Siegecrafter Blackfuse (Guide)

Postby Setokaiba » Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:02 am

I know this is tanking forum mainly, but HC strat wise, what weapon kill order would people suggest?
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Re: [10H] Siegecrafter Blackfuse (Guide)

Postby Kai » Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:15 am

there's a couple of choices you have in the fight, which are all viable.

first of all there's the tanking position. I think there's 2 common choices:

a) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDEKmjA1dA8 (evrelia/scrubbusters)

that's pretty much on the opposite of the belt/tube exit/entry. the advantage here is that there's an opening in the overcharged laser and the movement when overcharged laser fire is up and overcharged magnet starts to push you around while you have to dodge missles is easier.

b) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOHaTG9_6SE (fusion)

that's tanking him at the tube exit. means the movement during overcharged laser, overcharged magnet + normal missles is a bit more annoying, can see that around 2:05 in that video. however in 10 men the usual setup is 2 tanks 2 healer 6 dps (although people 1 heal this too). if you don't have a hunter or owl (those can jump on the belt each time), you will have to alternate 2 dps. now if you tank him in the a) spot, that means a LOT of movement for the belt teams and thus a big loss on boss dps.

1. Missile - Mines - Laser | Kill Mines | OC Missile
2. Mines - Laser - Missile | Kill Mines | OC Laser
3. Laser - Magnet - Missile | Kill Missile | OC Magnet
4. Laser - Missile - Mines | Kill Mines | OC Missile
5. Missile - Magnet - Mines | Kill Mines | OC Magnet
6. Laser - Mines - Mines | Kill Mines | OC Mines
7. Mines - Laser - Missile | Kill Mines | OC Missile
8. Missile - Magnet - Mines | Kill Magnet | OC Mines
9. Laser - Mines - Laser | Kill Mines | OC Laser

That's the spawns. Killing the mines is the common 10 men strategy as those are probably the most annoying to deal with. There's again a lot of different strategies though, some chose to deal with the mines as well.
As said before, you can influence what he picks next as he always prefers to pick a weapon that he didn't overcharge previously.
We tried a while to kill the magnet 3rd, mean's he overcharges missle there. In general you want to have as many overcharged missles as possible as those are surely the easiest and least annoying.
If you do that though, you get another laser 4th as you want to kill mine and just had missle, so it's laser. that means that you constantly have the fire on the ground. We're going with the above, but again, the difficulty differneces aren't that high. A lot comes down to preferance.
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Re: [10H] Siegecrafter Blackfuse (Guide)

Postby Ulrik » Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:05 pm

I'm having no problems with DBM timers. I think the audio loops you are experiencing are the default settings. Nearly everything is turned on and the audio count is trying to do Electrostatic Bolt, Shredder Spawn, Blades, etc. using both the guy and gal voices for different things. I just turned everything off except a few time bars to get rid of the noise.
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Re: [10H] Siegecrafter Blackfuse (Guide)

Postby Schroom » Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:41 am

@ Ulrik. that's exactly what I did ^^ I turned everything off except the Electrostatic Bolt timer an countdown. but it still kept going on.

well after 5 hours into progression I know my times, using /stopwatch.

who needs DBM anyway? :P

I expect a kill in 2, maybe 3 weeks.
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Re: [10H] Siegecrafter Blackfuse (Guide)

Postby Schroom » Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:12 am

the recent DBM update fixed my timer problem. yay
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Re: [10H] Siegecrafter Blackfuse (Guide)

Postby Chamallow » Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:01 pm

Would gemming/reforging crit be a bad idea? Say go down to 35% haste and have something like 20% crit unbuffed? Or would that be fucktarded?
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Re: [10H] Siegecrafter Blackfuse (Guide)

Postby Kai » Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:37 am

now that I saw this popping up again, useful thing for people working on this:

the spawn location of the first missile turret of each wave is determined by player position. the encounter picks a random player on the platform, draws a line from the middle through the player to the wall and drops the first turret there. I am fairly sure it's only healers and range dps, but it might be melee dps/tanks as well.

if you do the 10 men strat of killing mines on the belt whenever possible, this becomes very valuable for belt 2+3 when you have the overpowered laser stuff on the ground. if you spawn the turrets on the other side of the room, that means the waves are huge when they reach you. if you spawn them on your side of the room, it's much easier to dodge.
killing the overpowered turrets is also much more convenient if they spawn right in front of you, naturally.

so for example if your tank spot is at the 12 on a clock, have all range stand on 11, a couple of yards away from the middle. then the turrets will spawn roughly on 11,12,1 (as it always goes clockwise after the first and you determine the first that way). means tanks/melees only have to step a few yards to hit them.
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Re: [10H] Siegecrafter Blackfuse (Guide)

Postby Xfighter » Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:00 pm

We've had the tank who is killing the add be picked as a target before, as I'm fairly certain he was the only one that far out of position at the time. It's a pretty rare thing, but does tend to happen the odd time. Only ever really noticed it on the 3rd add, as with our strategy that's the more awkward one positioning wise.



And to the crit question: The only time I've noticed crit making a big difference was on the add being killed with 3 stacks (1 & 4) for us, but with CDs being available for them, it's never really been much of a bothersome overall. I'd prefer the haste for the EF ticks+constant damage, as even with going up to 15-20%, it's still playing for the RNG on a few select moves during a VERY small window (death from above +% dmg) to make a difference.



Something that wasn't suggested here but we opted to doing: instead of taking 3 - 2 - 4 - 6 and doing the first add with 3 & 4 stacks solo, we opted to the first tank doing 3, then getting the 4th, but instead of doing the add away from the boss, we kept him ontop of him, with both tanks helping kill it during death from above, as it tended to consistently net only 3 overloads, instead of the constant 4 we were getting while killing it solo (since all CDs were blown on first one)



Also, our kill attempt ended up having our second tank die @ stack 4 (was a 540 OS third fill-in tank) on the second set, and we managed to let me go up to 5, solo the add 5 away, and then go up to 6 or 7, kill the 6th add, and then burn the boss down before needing to worry about the next one. So don't call for a wipe if stacks are lost from a death - as long as it happens before the other tank loses his stack (before stack 5 on 2nd tank)
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Re: [10H] Siegecrafter Blackfuse (Guide)

Postby Schroom » Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:18 am

Hi guys, after 8 weeks of progression break, and recruiting (which sucks mid content -.-) we finally started working on this again and picked up right where we left.

how do you guys kill the 4rd add as a paladin? we have NO patches and NO saw blades when the 4rd add is up. so I'm in a naked room running against a wall. I don't see how I could kill it...

we play 3-2-4-6 I'm tank 1.

we never let mines spawn if possible.
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Re: [10H] Siegecrafter Blackfuse (Guide)

Postby Winkle » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:50 am

I don't think i quite understand your tank sequence. Anyway here's what we do:


Tank 1 - 3 Stacks (kill 1st add)
Tank 1 - 5 stacks (kill 2nd add)
Tank 1 resets
Tank 2 - 5 stacks (kill 3rd add)
Tank 2 - 7 stacks (kill 4th add)

TBH we're still playing around with the fight so perhaps having the 2nd tank go to 7 stacks isn't ideal, however at 7 stacks the add should melt, regardless of swablades.

Also note that with the patch the sequence of overcharged weapons may benefit from being altered. Blizzard haven't stated exactly how much the mines HP is being nerfed, but perhaps it's enough to warrant spawning mines over lazer?

Code: Select all
Overcharging is done based on a priority system, which is as follows:

    Electromagnet
    Crawler Mines
    Missile Turret
    Laser Turret

The same weapon cannot become Overcharged twice in a row


Wave 1: Crawler Mines, Missile Turret, Laser Turret (kill mines, overcharged missile)
Wave 2: Crawler Mines, Missile Turret, Laser Turret (kill missle, overcharged mines)
Wave 3: Electromagnet, Missile Turret, Laser Turret (kill magnet, overcharged missile)
Wave 4: Crawler Mines, Missile Turret, Laser Turret (kill missile, overcharged mines)
Wave 5: Electromagnet, Crawler Mine, Missile Turret (kill magnet, overcharged missile)
Wave 6: Crawler Mines, Crawler Mines, Laser Turret (kill mines, overcharged mines)
Wave 7: Crawler Mine, Missile Turret, Laser Turret (kill mines, overcharged missile)
Wave 8: Electromagnet, Crawler Mines, Missile Turret (kill magnet, overcharged mines)
   
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Re: [10H] Siegecrafter Blackfuse (Guide)

Postby samsara » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:57 am

don't know if it's a big difference from 25 to 10, we do it with 3,3,4,3,4,3.... ( it somehow overlaps a bit so that the 4th stack of the debuff on the first tank comes at the same time as the add or a second later, but this is not a big deal.

I'm the tank who tanks with 3 stacks but i don't have problems and nearly kill the add every time befor the 4th overload and when i slack and the 4th overload is comming Aura mastery works quite good :)

How to kill the add (on 25hc):

* about 5 sec before the add will jump in the air i use HA , so i can use it on every add which will come,
* for the 4th add i will use additionaly wings.
* use execution sentence about 2-3 secs before the addcast is finished, so you will get most of the ticks in the timewindow where the add is stunned on the ground.

you are right about that there is no fire or spinnning disks on the ground for the 4th add, as i wrote i pop HA and Wings which most of the time works, but just to be safe i place the add on a position on the ring where i know fire will spawn. so even if wings, ha and sometimes the kafa press wouldn't do it, the fire will do the rest and you can reduce raiddmg with Aura Mastery when overload is about to come (it allways comes a bit earlier than my timer is showing me (bigwigs) , about 1-3 secs)
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Re: [10H] Siegecrafter Blackfuse (Guide)

Postby Schroom » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:27 am

Blizzard haven't stated exactly how much the mines HP is being nerfed, but perhaps it's enough to warrant spawning mines over lazer?


Our raid leader mentioned that the devs said it would be about 10% in an interview. so not worth really changing tactics.

also it's not comparable to 25M. you have LOTS less vengeance in 10m.

also Aura mastery won't do any good. it's range is onyl 40m. and most of the raid is over 40m away from me. it would only help myself and my healer.

after the 2nd add when the magnet goes off, we send everybody except healers and tanks up on the Belt, so they're not affected by the magnet. (except our DK who has a debuff, but AM is strong here.)

we play like the OP suggested.

T1: 3 -> add -> 4 -> add
T2 2 -> 6 -> add

which puts me with 3 stacks on the 4th add, with no patches or sawblades (and a running 2nd magnet) as I always do 2 adds in a row, I can't HA every add. I basically use Avenging Wrath in the first add. EF myself 2 seconds before the mob starts to cast his "Death from above" and use ES with both buffs active the time you describe here. all was said in this thread before exactly like this ...

so the second add I got 4 stacks and use HA instead of AW, rest stays the same.

but as I said, we reached the 4rd add for the first time yesterday, and with only 3 stacks, and no patches or sawblades, I don't see how I could kill it. we had 6 overloads, then the raid just died.

the only idea I got is to swap tanks. so our warrior does my job, and most add duty while I do more boss and stack duty. as warriors do OP DPS that should be an option. but implies us relearning the fight from a different perspective. so IF there is another way and anyone got any ideas, they are welcome.
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