Warlords of Draenor

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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Klaudandus » Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:28 pm

Teranoid wrote:Speed
Lifesteal
Avoidance
Cleave
Sturdiness

Wat.


Not entirely thrilled by that either.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Teranoid » Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:29 pm

Soooo.. we got rid of stats.. to add more stats?
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Klaudandus » Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:32 pm

Teranoid wrote:Soooo.. we got rid of stats.. to add more stats?


Cleave at least feels more meaningful than having 22.5% hit+exp just to do your rotation without screwing yourself out of HOP, that said, screwing ourselves will be the normal now :/
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Teranoid » Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:38 pm

I think they're cool ideas to be honest. Looking at the actual expansion as a whole it's looking pretty promising.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Klaudandus » Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:50 pm

Not saying the ideas are not interesting, just that removing hit and exp is not something i would do, i would consolidate into a singl stat, and not something you need an obscene amount of... Only because our HoPo and thus our AM is pretty binary
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby KysenMurrin » Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:11 pm

No more reforging = massive reduction in the amount of time spent running sims on the character to work out what's an actual upgrade. If I was still playing I'd be all in favour of that.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Paxen » Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:43 pm

Itemization

Getting new items should be exciting. Right now it feels like you have to do a lot of work when you get a new item.
Hit and Expertise don't feel like a bonus, so they are now gone!
Dodge and Parry, gone!
Reforging, gone!
Enchanting is still around, but fewer items can be enchanted. There will be more enchant choices for those items.
The number of items with gem sockets will be gone. Only one gem slot per item. Gems are more powerful. Sockets are a bonus that don't count towards item level budget. No more socket bonuses or meta gems.
The stats on armor will now change based on your spec. Plate drops and it will have whatever stats your class needs, no more Intellect plate! No more PvP Priest Healing set and PvP Priest DPS set, just a Priest set.
Jewelery, cloak, trinkets, and weapons will be more role focused and might keep stats.
Armor will become a good tanking stat again, Spirit will be good for healers.
Tertiary stats are bonus stats that can appear on gear that don't count towards the item level budget. Lifesteal, avoidance, sturdiness, movement speed (stacks with other bonuses), cleave, and more.
Item squish is in! All of the big jumps from old expansions and raid tiers will be flattened.
Your relative power won't change, just the numbers. The speed at which you kill things won't change. You can still solo old content.


I have to say, this is all good. Fundamentally, in this day and age with crowdsourcing and guides on icy-veins and such, optimalization problems with one correct answer just isn't interesting. You cap hit and exp, no ifs or buts, so out they go. Reforging could have been nice if stats actually did anything except make you Better. (As in, if choosing to stack haste or crit made a difference you could notice apart from seeing your dps go up.) Since they don't, drop reforging. Enchanting, look up your BIS enchant, slap it on. All that reforge, gem, enchant every new piece of gear has just gone too far - it's trivial to find the correct answer, unless it's so complicated that you need an addon. It's not an interesting decision as to how you reforge/gem/enchant, so I'm happy it's mostly gone. Hopefully the remaining enchants can be interesting along the lines of the talent system.

As for stats, with Dodge and Parry gone (thanks be) the last remnants of actual spec gear disappeared - except primary stats. And when when the only difference between healer gear and dps/tank gear is "int or str?" that starts to look pretty meaningless too. Might as well go all the way. At the same time, it makes gearing a trivial question of "better ilvl?". Which is good and bad - good in that almost all the existing gearing decisions are nearly trivial, bad in that it makes gear less interesting overall. Will be interesting to see if their idea for keeping jewelry, cloaks, trinkets and weapon spec-specific will be the right balance. As someone who started out as a Bear in BC I approve of tanks grabbing trinkets and weapon with bonus armor!

Interesting news on tertiary stats. It has potential, but can also be just a nuissance. Looking forward to trying it.

Item squish, yes. Yes, yes yes. I wonder if they will go back to below-60 ilvls, that is, we'll start WoD at ilvl 90? Probably too drastic.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Paxen » Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:50 pm

The old version of Outland will remain unchanged. The current timeline is already somewhat of a mess, so the team may just move access to the current Outland to the Caverns of Time.


Yes. Easy fix that makes a lot of sense.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Worldie » Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:56 pm

It's good ideas overally.

What I don't like is, without hit/exp, with no reforge, with primary stat automatically changing with spec, with gems and enchants removed from most of the gear... are items becoming to be just all same? :\
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Zalaria » Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:07 pm

They said they're squishing stats, but ilvl will be unchanged. Reasoning being players are used to the meaning of current ilvls (or something close to that). I'm not sure why that matters when the damage-done and damage-needed are changing so drastically, but whatever.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Paxen » Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:10 pm

Worldie wrote:What I don't like is, without hit/exp, with no reforge, with primary stat automatically changing with spec, with gems and enchants removed from most of the gear... are items becoming to be just all same? :\


Without reforging I guess secondary stats will become even more important. A crit/haste item drops, do you roll on it or do you prefer your mastery/haste/cleave piece?

edit: Primary stats have been just a label for "usable by these specs and classes" for a while now. Not interesting.

Do you know what would be awesome? If Prot paladins got Int as their primary stat again. We got strength so that we could share gear with prot warriors, that doesn't apply anymore.
Last edited by Paxen on Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Teranoid » Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:10 pm

I think they realized that they had basically pushed the limits of what they affectionately liked to call the "frankenstein engine" that WoW has ran on and despite wanting to cram all this cool stuff in and let things get to astronomical levels it just couldn't support it all.

Things like making smart heals not so smart, heirlooms/toys/tabards having their own interface like pets, item squishing and whatnot is going to allow them breathing room to do some really great things without basically risking the destruction of the game from a technical standpoint and I think the whole 25 man input lag issue was the breaking point.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Flex » Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:30 pm

Klaudandus wrote:Reforgin gone? How the fuck will I get rid of all the dodge and parry?


What dodge and parry? that shit is gone.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Klaudandus » Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:56 pm

Flex wrote:
Klaudandus wrote:Reforgin gone? How the fuck will I get rid of all the dodge and parry?


What dodge and parry? that shit is gone.


I posted that before they confirmed dodge/parry gone :D
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Klaudandus » Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:43 pm

No meta gems!?
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