[10H] Thok the Bloodthirsty

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[10H] Thok the Bloodthirsty

Postby Fenrìr » Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:20 am

So we rocked out for a few pulls on this guy the other day and our priest who calls out raid CDs has a question that quite frankly, we dunno.

Sometimes the devo prevented casting interrupts, and sometimes it didn't. I can't really figure out why, but I have a theory. If you are interrupted when the devo first goes out, you will continue to be interruptable throughout the devo's duration. Would be great if anyone else can find out the real cause.



So anyone got any definitive answer to that?
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Re: [10H] Thok the Bloodthirsty

Postby Kai » Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:28 am

it prevents it 100% for us, had no issues at all. but only lasts 6s. healing that as a paladin is super annoying though. maybe I need to go all out haste or something, but getting in 2s casts when he's above 18 stacks of acceleration is kind of miserable. plus aoe healing splashing within 10 yards and the bloodied check meaning you don't want more then 4 people within 10 yards is also brilliant.
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Re: [10H] Thok the Bloodthirsty

Postby Xfighter » Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:38 am

Don't have experience on heroic yet, but we've been practicing CD orders on normal for awhile now. Nobody has ever really complained about it not working for them. Maybe it has to do with devo going out while you're mid cast already? And maybe if you start casting after its gone out you're fine? If not then it could be some wonky latency issue. One more possibility is if you got locked out of casting right before devo landed, maybe you're able to get locked during it aswell?

Those are the only things I can think of having never had anyone complain from normal.
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Re: [10H] Thok the Bloodthirsty

Postby Belloc » Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:56 am

My guess is that one of these two things is happening:

1.) You're trying to time devo for a roar and either because of player error or latency, it's going off half a second late and allowing interrupts.

2.) Devo is fading before a roar and players are expecting it to still be up.
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Re: [10H] Thok the Bloodthirsty

Postby Fenrìr » Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:00 am

It's probably going to have to be the first issue. We're overlapping two devos by about a second or two to get around 9-10 seconds of devo action. Guess we'll see tomorrow when we go back in.
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Re: [10H] Thok the Bloodthirsty

Postby Schroom » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:58 am

we are going for this tonight. we've been practicing the tactics an CDs as well for the past couple of weeks in NM.

our holy pally starts with devo, and announces it. I got a Weak aura to see how long it is up so I chain mine to double the uptime. I count it down so everybody knows.

0.5sec before it falls of, I BoP our druid. Our paladin bubbles and BoPs our restoshaman.

also LH is nice as a tank. And a huge support here
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Re: [10H] Thok the Bloodthirsty

Postby Grommash » Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:22 am

Honestly not a good fight to call out for CDs. Have a set order that people use their CDs the exact same way every pull. It's not necessary, but it's pretty important that you can consistently push close to 24-25 stacks on the first transition with the CDs you have.

We unlock the cage during the kite phase with about 25% left on his fourth fixate. This means that he will fixate a fifth person and end his fixate cast with roughly 25% of the cast left. Depending on how you kite, this should put him roughly in the middle of the room if you have the fourth kite go up towards spoils with the fifth one heading to where Thok is when you enter.

We don't have any raid CDs ready for the poison phase so we exit it a couple stacks after we kill the bats. We roughly kill the bats around 7-9 stacks and basically stack up around 11 and see how far we can go with absolutely not CDs. It's really not that important that you extend this phase that long. It's more important you kill the bats as quickly as possible and then transition IMO. The poison phase is the most dangerous phase given bat damage and the poison dot.

During the poison kite (much like the other ones) it's important to have a stack point where the jailer is. Most guilds run a priest and unless you 4 heal the encounter (which is possibly with a solo tank like a prot paladin) it's impossible to keep up with dispels with just 3 healers unless you have mass dispel clear 2+ at a time. Don't be shy about using immunities or telling people to use defensive CDs if they are kiting Thok on this one. The poison combined with his random AoE damage can and will kill people. Much like the first transition we unlock the cage near the end of the fourth fixate which puts him roughly in the middle, and fairly easy to pick up.

Frost phase is treated exactly the same as the normal phase. We push our phase 1 CDs ahead a couple of stacks just to be safe, but try to extend it as long as possible. With proper positioning the yeti should be no concern and honestly, the frost phase feels about the same as the first one. There is an RnG element to the phase though. Sometimes people get ice blocked and sometimes they don't. Make sure you tell your melee to resist the urge to run to an ice block in another group though, as that will potentially push a phase early.

The yeti is only really a problem during the frost kite. You will have people die to it and it is frustrating. People just need to not tunnel when they are kiting and be very careful where he is charging. Most people don't know it but there is a giant red beacon of light telling you where he is going, just make sure you yell and remind people about the yeti.

Fire phase sucks. We basically loosely spread due to fire aids being everywhere. We stack up as soon as 4-5 AoEs go out as after that is fairly dangerous and people might die. If you have too many people die you can't transition so it's recommended that you transition after 4-5 AoES as it's still fairly easy for healers to keep people topped off with hard casts as the cast time of his roar isn't that quick yet. Obviously ignore the jailer and full damage on the boss once you transition out of fire. You won't be able to do nearly as much damage in this phase as previous kite phases because of both the yeti and the fire that is still dropping, tunneling range will die very quickly if they don't keep moving.

If you have really good DPS you can kill him right after the frost phase ends. Assuming 1 melee if the boss is below 15% it might be worth it to just straight out burn.

That's about all I can think of. Vanish, invisibility and feign death will make him re-fixate. So if one of those classes is in danger of being chomped or you're just trying to burn and save time they should for sure use those abilities.
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Re: [10H] Thok the Bloodthirsty

Postby Schroom » Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:18 am

has anyone ever tried to have a couple of invisibility potions in your inventory. just in case you are about to get eaten? better waste a Pot then being dead.

would love to see if this works.
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Re: [10H] Thok the Bloodthirsty

Postby Incalcando » Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:18 am

Pretty sure stuff like feign death and spectral guise have worked for us before and the boss just refixates, so invis potion might be worth trying.
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Re: [10H] Thok the Bloodthirsty

Postby Kai » Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:46 am

has anyone tried completely skipping the poison phase? last time we were on this, we 1 tanked this with a brewmaster (mostly because we don't have a 2nd geared tank atm). if our shaman shows up, we got a pretty good healing setup with druid/shaman/priest, but that seems unlikely this reset and we probably won't have much more time then 2-3 hours, if even.
wondering this: has anyone tried to just skip the poison phase and 2 heal / 1 tank this? the one thing we actually have is very good dps. I've seen logs/videos from guilds with lower dps then us that kill him before entering the fire phase.
now the poison phase is the most annoying by far if you 2 heal it. bats do a lot of dmg and they don't die all that quickly. our 1 tank has to keep them in front of the boss, obviously, and our raid had 3 melees that can barely touch them along with 2 mages, that aren't exactly the pinnacle of aoe dmg either right now. that means we got the tank, a destro warlock and a hunter on them. less then ideal.

so I'm thinking - why not just skip the poison phase. the debuff is a major pain in the ass, especially with just 2 dispellers. and the bats aren't exactly fun to handle either. the fire phase would only be 3-4 acceleration stacks and then straight back to kiting. going up to 15 blood frenzy stacks during kiting isn't a big problem now that we've roughly figured out how to control the fixate targeting.

anyone tried that?
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Re: [10H] Thok the Bloodthirsty

Postby Belloc » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:49 am

Not that this answers your question, but if you have a destro warlock, you should have 3 dispels. If said warlock uses a fel imp instead, that turns it into a triple dispel (at least during the stacked portion). Either of those options will help with that phase if dispels are a problem.

edit: Though, I'm not sure if Thok will be constantly interrupting the Fel Imp, which would be an unacceptable DPS loss. Either way, the sacrificed imp dispel is excellent for that phase.
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Re: [10H] Thok the Bloodthirsty

Postby Kai » Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:26 pm

yeah, our warlock does that. imp doesn't get interrupted by the silencing shout thingy.
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Re: [10H] Thok the Bloodthirsty

Postby Schroom » Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:49 am

woah thanks for the warlock tip. we are 1 tanking, 3 healing this and Debuffs fucked up half of our tries as healers were to busy. this should help A LOT as we have 2 Locks.
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Re: [10H] Thok the Bloodthirsty

Postby Xfighter » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:25 am

I must thank you immensely for this topic. My normal co-tank was slated to be missing for a few days this week, right as we started Thok progression so learning the ins and outs of 1-tanking was a godsend.

Overall took us 2 half nights and one full night to down this, and I must say gear seems to completely neuter this fight from the first kills to now. Our kill ended up having a frost DK die 2x in the first kite phase, and kept going. Had someone kite Thok wrong in the second kite phase, and lost a warlock. Still managed a kill before needing to unlock fire gate (boss was around 10% or so entering this kite phase so just had myself and both healers dishing out as much dps as possible).


We did the 1T/2H/7D strat, due to 2-healing most fights and our 3rd healer being a much better DPS than a 3rd healer. I'd say 40-45 of our 52 pulls were wipes in the first P1 or second P1. The poison+bats really really tests your raids CDs/Healing/Awareness if you blow all CDs in the first phase. I'd imagine this is the only part where having the 3rd healer would have simplified things.

Group comp:
Prot paladin
Resto shaman
Resto druid
2x Shadow
Warlock
Hunter
Fury War
Frost DK
? Rogue


I called out all CDs as they were needed, same order each time just varied exact stacks depending on how healers were coping:
(before) 3rd - Bomb
After 6th - Banner+Rally
Devo+2x Vamp+AG 1 stack after Rally fades
BoP+Tranq a stack or two after
A stack (or 2-3 sec) after tranq I'd toss a LH with AW up which would cover until we were ready to push out

First P1 we managed 27 stacks on our kill, averaged 24-26 though. Kite phases were all 12 stacks, unless kiting got messed up sometimes only hit 10-11. Most 2nd P1s were 6-8 stacks when we managed to push out safely, our kill somehow managed 13 before pushing out (I delayed hammer a good bit which let more veng build up). 3rd P1 managed 22 stacks following the same order, minus the smoke bomb (which was used as soon as it came up in 2nd P1) Killed him during his 3rd kite with 8 people alive, by completely ignoring jailor and having healers toss out everything they could spare while healing everyone.


Kite paths were always towards the back of the room on the first, hallway 2nd, room 3rd, hallway 4th, and then room 5th but ended part way through.




A huge thing was ensuring whereever the melee group ended up in the druid puddle, that they were able to hit Thoks back. When I started doing this, damage went up a massive amount and got the kill within 6 pulls.






This fight was all about surviving the 2nd P1 consistently with more than 7 alive, and the kill came very shortly after. Bats were my biggest issue for the bulk of our pulls that got here, as healers are pumping out insane numbers and the bats tend to come in awkwardly depending on your position and sometimes no matter what still head for the healers (while needing to hold hammer for higher stacks). Biggest tip when solo-tanking is to not under estimate the jailor, as with your debuff stacks even without the enrage he hits like a truck. If he enrages while you still have debuffs, you'll be getting completely stomped. I had our druid healer focusing on dispelling enrages (hunter did when she was kiting) and this saved a lot of damage in take.
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Re: [10H] Thok the Bloodthirsty

Postby Kai » Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:38 am

did blizzard really figure out JUST NOW after a full year of the same problem that having all aoe-raid wide damage do the same or nearly the same amount on 10 and 25 men means that such encounters are easier to deal with on 25 men with multiple AGs, tranqs, VEs, DAs? really???

Most of the time what they do makes at least some sense, but then with stuff like this it feels their pve tuning department is a single guy that only wakes up when whatever game he's playing all day gets boring and he sits down to work for a day or two for a change.
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