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Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:31 pm

It only took them almost two months...

Protection
Protection Paladins are now eligible to receive plate armor with Haste via person loot (Raid Finder and Flexible difficulty) and bonus rolls (all difficulty modes) from Siege of Orgrimmar and Ordos.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Fetzie » Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:34 pm

Klaudandus wrote:It only took them almost two months...

Protection
Protection Paladins are now eligible to receive plate armor with Haste via person loot (Raid Finder and Flexible difficulty) and bonus rolls (all difficulty modes) from Siege of Orgrimmar and Ordos.


Two months? More like nearly 2 years! This has been overdue since they gave us Sanctity of Battle in MoP beta.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Marilee » Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:46 pm

Praise be unto Blizzard!!!!!!!

PS dammit, why'd you take so long
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby fuzzygeek » Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:28 pm

This actually doesn't help us much, as it just shits up the loot tables with more things, which reduces the odds of getting what you want when you actually roll something other than gold.

Immerseus, the Hit/Haste bracers are 1/3 items on the ret table, but 1/5 items on the prot table.
Protectors: Mast/Haste Shoulder+Hit/Haste belt are 2/3 items on ret 2/5 on prot.
Iron Jug: Haste/Mast belt is 1/4 ret, 1/4 on prot (wash)
Dark Shaman: Crit/Haste Boots probably still ret-only.
Spoils: Crit/Haste ring probably still ret-only.
Siegecrafter probably the big winner, with the Ring/Mace on the same spec now, so that's nice.
Garrosh also a wash, being 1/3 on either end.

Ordos belt/wrist/pants are 3/9 ret, 3/10 prot.

(I made a shopping list of the loot listed in the dungeon journal by spec to figure out what spec to use bonus rolls on for which bosses http://bit.ly/SoOshopping )

Does anyone know if you can coin-roll heirlooms, by the way?

But yeah. It's nice that they did this, but still not necessarily that useful. Spec juggling may still be necessary on a boss-by-boss basis.

Perhaps next expac they'll figure out an itemization scheme that doesn't make us completely dismiss certain bits of gear.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Fenrìr » Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:54 am

I've heard you cannot coin roll the hierlooms, but it's only hearsay.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Fetzie » Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:31 am

You can get the heirloom items on the bonus roll.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby jere » Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:39 am

fuzzygeek wrote:This actually doesn't help us much, as it just shits up the loot tables with more things, which reduces the odds of getting what you want when you actually roll something other than gold.


Depends on your perspective. Yes it lowers you chances of getting the exact item you want, but it also lowers your chances of getting that same stupid item every single week. At some point after getting the same item every single week, getting anything, even if it isn't what you really really want, is an improvement!

:)

On a side note, have yall been getting stuff off of the celestial bosses with protection spec set as loot spec? I know RNG is always an issue, but I remember they had trouble with Nalak not dropping gear for prot pallies before, and I haven't received a single piece of gear from them since Timeless Isle started and I have been using bonus rolls each week.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:47 am

I never got anything off of nalak as protection. Have yet to win anything off of celestials as protection.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby fuzzygeek » Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:50 am

Gotten ret gloves and pants off celestials (accidentally in wrong lootspec, woo) but no prot pieces.

Edit: just saw an idiot complaining about getting prot pants 4 times, so guess it's not broken.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Marilee » Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:11 pm

fuzzygeek wrote:This actually doesn't help us much, as it just shits up the loot tables with more things, which reduces the odds of getting what you want when you actually roll something other than gold.



And by "us" you mean you and others in heroic progression guilds. ;) (Grats on your Garrosh normal kill.)

I am in a friends and family guild, which now does flex, and we just got Sha of Pride down for the first time last week. We'll be working on Galakras this week. Having more loot for more item slots available on earlier bosses that we can manage to kill and even farm means I can get more total 540+ gear earlier, helping us progress further faster than we would otherwise. Some of it won't be best in slot, but I rarely get access to best in slot anyway.

I imagine many people doing flex or even still working slowly through the first half of Normal 10/25 progression will appreciate this change in the same way.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby fuzzygeek » Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:27 pm

Marilee wrote:And by "us" you mean you and others in heroic progression guilds.
...
I am in a friends and family guild, which now does flex, and we just got Sha of Pride down for the first time last week.
...
I imagine many people doing flex or even still working slowly through the first half of Normal 10/25 progression will appreciate this change in the same way.


By "us" I mean protection paladins.

It makes no difference if you are running LFR, Flex, Normals, or Heroics -- if you are acquiring loot via loot spec -- either LFR personal loot, Flex personal loot, or Bonus Rolls -- you're *still* going to be better off switching to ret spec for at least 5 bosses if you are after specific haste pieces.

More loot on the loot table does not increase your odds of getting loot. It is a two roll system -- you have a certain percentage chance of getting any item. If the roll determines you've won something, *then* it checks to see what you've gotten. Your odds of getting loot does not increase with the number of items on the loot table.

Edit: re-reading your post I think I misunderstood your take on it. Your point being -- correct me if I'm wrong -- that at least you might win tank-stat pieces for other slots. Yes? The argument being that winning sub-optimal tank gear is better than winning an outright ret piece.

I'm still not certain I agree. If you look at the loot breakdown spreadsheet I linked earlier, consider the cases.
Immersius:
Prot: D/P Shoulder, D/P Wrist, Hast/Hit Wrist, Mast/Haste Gloves, Hit/P boots, D/P Weapon.
Ret: Haste/Crit Chest, Haste/Hit Wrist, Mast/Haste Gloves

It looks like there's a lot of nice stuff on the prot table. I still think you're better off rolling as Ret, since all three pieces are haste, and if you win *any loot at all* off him, it'll be useable. Once you've got the wrists and gloves (or have tier gloves) then switch to prot and chase that weapon if you're still needing an upgrade there, but for initial efficiency you're still better off long term with loot spec Ret.

The breakdown is similar for the other bosses I'd consider ret-positive.

In your case as a cursory recommendation I'd suggest running first 2 as ret-spec, next 2 as prot, then back to ret for Galakras when you kill him, but it depends more on which slots specifically you're chasing.

In general I don't see the point in "chasing" sub-optimal loot, but as you say (and I agree), any loot you can get from farm helps push progression.

Edit edit: taking a closer look at tables -- does anyone know if the haste/crit items are also on the prot tables now too?
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby halabar » Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:50 pm

Umm... getting the haste gear is only an issue if it drops from the same boss as the traditional piece, correct? This change should increase the # of bosses that you can get loot on, unless they all overlap.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Fetzie » Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:01 pm

fuzzygeek wrote:
Marilee wrote:And by "us" you mean you and others in heroic progression guilds.
...
I am in a friends and family guild, which now does flex, and we just got Sha of Pride down for the first time last week.
...
I imagine many people doing flex or even still working slowly through the first half of Normal 10/25 progression will appreciate this change in the same way.


By "us" I mean protection paladins.

It makes no difference if you are running LFR, Flex, Normals, or Heroics -- if you are acquiring loot via loot spec -- either LFR personal loot, Flex personal loot, or Bonus Rolls -- you're *still* going to be better off switching to ret spec for at least 5 bosses if you are after specific haste pieces.

More loot on the loot table does not increase your odds of getting loot. It is a two roll system -- you have a certain percentage chance of getting any item. If the roll determines you've won something, *then* it checks to see what you've gotten. Your odds of getting loot does not increase with the number of items on the loot table.

Edit: re-reading your post I think I misunderstood your take on it. Your point being -- correct me if I'm wrong -- that at least you might win tank-stat pieces for other slots. Yes? The argument being that winning sub-optimal tank gear is better than winning an outright ret piece.

I'm still not certain I agree. If you look at the loot breakdown spreadsheet I linked earlier, consider the cases.
Immersius:
Prot: D/P Shoulder, D/P Wrist, Hast/Hit Wrist, Mast/Haste Gloves, Hit/P boots, D/P Weapon.
Ret: Haste/Crit Chest, Haste/Hit Wrist, Mast/Haste Gloves

It looks like there's a lot of nice stuff on the prot table. I still think you're better off rolling as Ret, since all three pieces are haste, and if you win *any loot at all* off him, it'll be useable. Once you've got the wrists and gloves (or have tier gloves) then switch to prot and chase that weapon if you're still needing an upgrade there, but for initial efficiency you're still better off long term with loot spec Ret.

The breakdown is similar for the other bosses I'd consider ret-positive.

In your case as a cursory recommendation I'd suggest running first 2 as ret-spec, next 2 as prot, then back to ret for Galakras when you kill him, but it depends more on which slots specifically you're chasing.

In general I don't see the point in "chasing" sub-optimal loot, but as you say (and I agree), any loot you can get from farm helps push progression.

Edit edit: taking a closer look at tables -- does anyone know if the haste/crit items are also on the prot tables now too?


The items now available on the Protection roll are:

Siege of Orgrimmar - using the non-heroic non-warforged stats (item level 553):
Bubble-Burst Bracers (623 Haste / 861 Hit)
Corruption-Rotted Gauntlets (941 Haste / 950 Mastery / red+blue.120str)
Darkfallen Shoulderplates (899 Haste / 981 Mastery / 2xblue.120str)
Demolisher's Reinforced Belt (950 Haste / 950 Mastery / red+yellow.120str)
Legplates of Unthinking Strife (1288 Haste / 1232 Mastery / 2xblue+red.120str)
Poisonbinder Girth (824 Haste / 1025 Hit / red+blue.120str)
Thranok's Shattering Helm (1288 Haste / 1232 Mastery / meta+blue.180str)

Ordos - are all non-heroic warforged (item level 559):
Magdalena's Murderous Crown (1310 Haste / 1369 Mastery / meta+blue.180str)
Partik's Purified Legplates (1274 Haste/ 1390 Mastery / yellow+blue.120str)
Remnar's Ruinous Girdle (1104 Haste / 850 Hit / yellow+blue.120str)
Rossi's Rosin-Soaked Shoulderplates (1058 Haste / 929 Mastery / red+blue.120str)
Vanguard's Burly Bracers (640 Hit / 921 Haste)
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Ruldar » Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:27 pm

Pretty impressive set of SoO LFR nerfs in the hotfixes today.

And "Mokvar the Treasurer's Bribe ability should now be properly removed when the target has less than 50% health." is a hilarious change, looks like it's for all difficulty levels.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Worldie » Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:39 pm

Ruldar wrote:Pretty impressive set of SoO LFR nerfs in the hotfixes today.

Honest answer after doing LFR repeately on 7 chars this last 2 weeks.
I was surprised it took them so long to nerf the shit out of SoO LFR, I actually expect more nerfs to come to Iron Juggernaut, Nazgrim and Garrosh

Ruldar wrote:And "Mokvar the Treasurer's Bribe ability should now be properly removed when the target has less than 50% health." is a hilarious change, looks like it's for all difficulty levels.

Worked fine for me this week in Flex and Normal/Heroic, just in LFR it seembed broken and not removing the MC, forcing you to either CC (ahah CC in LFR...) or just kill the MCd targets.
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