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[10N] Kor'Kron Dark Shaman

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[10N] Kor'Kron Dark Shaman

Postby Ironshield » Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:29 am

Thought I'd share some thoughts on the slightly cheesy tactic we used to kill this, namely 3 tanking on 10 man.

First off kill the wolves ASAP as usual.

Earthbreaker Haromm
Have two tanks, two healers and your best single target / glass cannon / worst target switching ranged DPS take Haromm up the ramp to the right of where the bosses start. Right up to the gate to the next load of trash. You can then lay down the Ashen Wall elementals against the gate or the back wall and slowly move down the hill back towards the rest of the raid. If the three ranged spread out on the ram they don't have to move for Foul Stream. Note on Ashen wall: think of it as a T with you at the cross bar and the boss at the foot. He will stop moving to cast it and it has a bit of a cast time, so if you tank him a bit down the hill from where you want the wall to land and run back as he casts it you can be sure the get them all parallel.
Haromm.jpg
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Wavebinder Kardris
The rest of the raid can use the whole normal area in front of the the bosses to deal with storms and slimes. While I was trying this we had some trouble getting things neatly laid out but since the other two tanks were monks we realised the folly of wasting them on the stationary boss. I'm not 100% sure but I'm pretty confident that glyphing Holy Wrath allowed me to stun the slimes.

BIG DOWNSIDE
While this strategy does make a lot of the abilities a LOT easier to deal with, there is a pretty major downside, in that if one group gets killed, even if there is only ~1% on the boss, they will despawn if one boss is out of range of every one. So if one group starts dying towards the end. Pop your cooldowns and LEG IT back to the other group so that you can eek a kill. We also had one attempt where I dropped down a bit of a slope while tanking Haromm and he got stuck in the landscape and wouldn't let us move him, meaning we wiped to Ashen walls and even though he didn't despawn the other group couldn't kill him.
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Re: [10N] Kor'Kron Dark Shaman

Postby Belloc » Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:44 am

You already pointed out what is, imo, the best possible way to handle the fight (3 tanking), so I'll point out one other thing that may be helpful for some groups.

If you find yourself near one of the many huts in the area and Ashen Wall will soon be casting, you can drag the boss into the hut, let the cast go off, and then bring him back outside of the hut and the Ashen Wall will be pretty much completely out of the way.
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Re: [10N] Kor'Kron Dark Shaman

Postby econ21 » Mon Oct 07, 2013 2:55 am

3 tanks sounds clean but I doubt my raid will have a third tank available.

With the 2 tank strategy, what should be tank be doing when the oozes spawn? I often seem to aggro them due to AOE and then back pedal to kite/kill them. However, co-tanks have criticised me for moving excessively and I do sometimes move into rather lethal crap. How should the oozes be handled and to what extent should the tanks move as part of that?
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Re: [10N] Kor'Kron Dark Shaman

Postby Schroom » Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:01 am

on normal we did 2 tanks as well. i used my stun glyph for holy wrath.

stuned them, and ran away asap. while they died from range dps
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Re: [10N] Kor'Kron Dark Shaman

Postby Calleana » Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:25 am

2 tanks wise this just feels really messy.

We stunned and slowed the slimes; the tank targeted just move away when targeted by the boss to start spawning adds so at 65 we just split the bosses up and taunted after the slime went up each time.

The main thing we found very helpful was assigning a healer to each tank (we run 3) so we didn't out-range them.
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Re: [10N] Kor'Kron Dark Shaman

Postby Winkle » Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:57 am

Calleana wrote:2 tanks wise this just feels really messy.

We stunned and slowed the slimes; the tank targeted just move away when targeted by the boss to start spawning adds so at 65 we just split the bosses up and taunted after the slime went up each time.

The main thing we found very helpful was assigning a healer to each tank (we run 3) so we didn't out-range them.


3 tanks and 3 healers? It's all starting to sound a little excessive. I guess it gives you a lot of control but if you 2 tank/2heal it everyhting jsut dies so much faster you have a lot less things to deal with anyway.
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Re: [10N] Kor'Kron Dark Shaman

Postby Schroom » Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:32 pm

3 tanks 3 healers is how we ran HM, and split the bosses. btw. you could just use this tactic for NM. it would make it less messy. BUT you need more DPS as you can't multiDoT the Bosses or benefit from Cleeve damage.
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Re: [10N] Kor'Kron Dark Shaman

Postby Calleana » Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:44 am

If we try out the 3 tank method we will probably go 2 healers (3 & 3 sounds a bit excessive for normal modes).
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Re: [10N] Kor'Kron Dark Shaman

Postby Jabari » Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:25 pm

Calleana wrote:If we try out the 3 tank method we will probably go 2 healers (3 & 3 sounds a bit excessive for normal modes).


The Haromm healer needs to have a crapload of throughput if you're doing that. The DoT ticks really, really hard and he mashes the tank pretty hard at 3/4 stacks too.

We just do the "normal" way (2 tanks, 2-3 heals) in our normal group, but we kept losing everyone to everything in my (far less skilled) guild flex group. We ended up 3-tank/4-healing it with a group of about 12, as the druid's circle-of-permenance wasn't enough to one-heal the Haromm group - she kept running OOM with the bosses at about 30%.
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Re: [10N] Kor'Kron Dark Shaman

Postby Xfighter » Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:28 am

My guild has done the 2T/2H strat since the beginning for our normal mode kills, and while it can get messy, you have so much more DPS this way that you're able to beat the bosses before you really run into issues with space. If a wall is dropped poorly, or clouds cover a large area, just move enough till you're safe with a good bit of room, and keep Eartbreaker about 20-30 yards ahead of Wavebinder (with wavebinder on the edge of the "bad" stuff).


We have experience 3T/2H it on heroic (and that's how we kill it), but overall for normal it still feels like 2T, while a bit less controlled, ends up being the better option if tanks are able to communicate.


When we swap, it's always right after a wave of adds dies, and we generally wait until the wavebinder tank has range on earthbreaker, to prevent too much movement, while the earthbreaker tank then drags wavebinder back to the edge of the bad stuff. This timing proves troublesome with walls sometimes, it just requires the tanks to pay attention to the timing.



A video of our second normal kill (2t/2h): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln7zvB_B4aM

We started keeping the 2 bosses together until 70% after the video was taken, to get more cleave damage out. It also has pretty much every single wall being placed badly, but based on the positioning, it never became much of an issue if you're able to adapt and use the space provided to you ;)
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Re: [10N] Kor'Kron Dark Shaman

Postby Hrobertgar » Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:33 pm

My group has done the 3T, 2.5H strat the last couple of weeks and its MUCH cleaner. We sent our two regular tanks plus a Resto Shammy for chain heal up the ramp with the Earthmender. We tried a priest but the damage was very spikey and Chain Heal works so well for 3 ppl. Dmg is spikey depending on who gets the DoT from the boss on top of tank switches. I would see our tank health go from full to 30% in like 3 ticks sometimes, so I feel for the healer.

This week we missed some ramp trash so that made tanking on the ramp extra fun, lol.

3rd tank plus everyone else went in main area with other boss. On one kill we had only the shammy for Hero so that presented a minor positioning issue, but otherwise much less stressfull on mechanics and positioning for the raid vs our one 2T kill.
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Re: [10N] Kor'Kron Dark Shaman

Postby lythac » Fri Oct 18, 2013 5:46 am

Going to be trying the 3 tank method on Sunday and most likely have 3 healers so a bit overkill. It is likely we will be running with 2 ranged (Mage and priest or Druid) and 2 melee DPS (one DK, one rogue) so wondering how to split everyone up.

From the first post it has 2 tanks, 2 healers and a ranged DPS going up the hill.

Later in the thread 2 tanks, 1 healer.

I don't think we can afford a ranged DPS going up the ramp else the adds will go down too slow, The DK helps out on them though I do not know how much he contributes vs a proper ranged. We also have a disc priest so something about smite damage.

I was thinking 2 tanks, 1 disc, another healer (and possibly the rogue) heading up the ramp, the Disc can spend most of the time Smiting and then shielding when tanks at 4/5 stacks (sound reasonable?).

Between our 3 tanks we have 2 cloaks, was thinking it be best to have the tank down the bottom with a cloak. If one dies up the top, then the other can shieldwall take an extra stack and the other ressed, buffed up and healed before shieldwall runs out. Where as if the bottom tank dies it seems messier.
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Re: [10N] Kor'Kron Dark Shaman

Postby Kelerei » Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:58 am

Got this easily last night using the 3-tank strategy.

We sent our two regular tanks, two healers and all our melee up the hill (only one melee once the role swap-outs were done -- our mistweaver switches to tank and our ret pally goes holy), and left our third tank, our resto druid and the three ranged at the bottom.

Haromm group: heal through Toxic Mist, point Foul Stream away from raid (dropped a raid marker for that), and if tanking, try not to impede the rest of your group with Ashen Wall (for which the first post in this thread explains brilliantly).

Kardris group: run away screaming from slimes until ranged takes them out, and don't stand in bad stuff (storms, tornadoes, falling ash). :P
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Re: [10N] Kor'Kron Dark Shaman

Postby econ21 » Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:13 am

Two tanking this in flex, I got abused by the PUG tank for (a) not running away when the boss targeted me with the oozes; (b) kiting the oozes into the raid.

What is the benefit of running away when targeted? The PUG tank said I killed him because the slimes spawned next to him. I thought the slimes spawn on Kardis, rather than his target? And that Kardis is stationary while spawning the oozes? My normal approach is to move away when the oozes start to appear, after getting some aggro and maybe a stun on them. If I run away during the cast, would the slimes follow me? I fear they might aggro on the other tank if we were together but I run before the oozes appear.

On not kiting the oozes in the raid, how do you lay things out to make it easier? I had told the raid to stack behind the bosses, leaving the area in front free to move into. But ultimately, they gravitated to being in front of the bosses - I guess because that area was clean - and thus were in my kite zone. On video I just watched had the Kardis tank lagging behind the Hadromm tank, so the kiting essentially brought them back together (with the raid being largely in of the Hadromm tank).
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Re: [10N] Kor'Kron Dark Shaman

Postby Xfighter » Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:26 am

econ21 wrote:What is the benefit of running away when targeted?
I thought the slimes spawn on Kardis, rather than his target?
And that Kardis is stationary while spawning the oozes?
If I run away during the cast, would the slimes follow me?
I fear they might aggro on the other tank if we were together but I run before the oozes appear.

On not kiting the oozes in the raid, how do you lay things out to make it easier?
On video I just watched had the Kardis tank lagging behind the Hadromm tank, so the kiting essentially brought them back together (with the raid being largely in of the Hadromm tank).

Breaking your post down:
1) Doing a medium sized circle around the boss when targeted causes the oozes to spawn where you previously were, and keeps the close to the boss for DPS's targeted AoE to be used on the boss to cleave the adds. Including easier hammer of the righteous from you to grab them.

2) The slimes spawn from the bolts that Kardis casts, which are targeted on his current target. Each bolt that lands does short-ranged AoE damage, and spawns the ooze.

3) He does stay stationary, due to above answer.

4) The slime spawns would follow you, based on where you were at during each tick of his cast (tick being when a poison bolt is launched, fixed amount each time he starts to cast). Spawned oozes will only follow you, if you get threat on them.

5) They ideally should be kept separated before Kardis starts spawning them, and if not, the other tank could/should help you grab them with the melee moving away until the slimes are dead.

6) We keep Kardis away from Earthbreaker, 20-30 yards. Essentially Kardis is always kept on the edge of the "bad" that Earthbreaker is kited away from. "Bad" includes storms, falling ash, ashen walls, etc. Allows for more kite room without getting overrun by moving too fast.

7) Basically what you should be doing. Only thing is ranged should aim to keep more middle of the room, and melee on Earthbreakers position. If you have ranged/healers standing infront of where Earthbreaker is going to be kited to, you run the risk of bad storm placements, and thus much less room to kite the bosses around. The ranged would also be too far from Kardis to AoE in this case, if Kardis is kept away from Earthbreaker.



A somewhat sloppy video from our second kill on normal is posted above, if it helps visualize it a bit better.



Also, I've generally found that the bulk of the slime damage is caused from the spawning of them (the spawn AoE is larger than the pulsing AoE that they do), so I generally pop a CD (divine protection usually) as soon as he starts casting, and move in a circle around Kardis to minimize the bolt damage, and keep cons/hammer/holy wrathing to pick up the oozes, allowing them all to stay clustered for optimal AoE - If they start to hurt, all it takes is a stun/sprint away, and you're back to being safe.
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