Socially engineering a better (worse?) player base

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Re: Socially engineering a better (worse?) player base

Postby halabar » Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:08 pm

I think a core part of the problem of LFR is that now, more than ever, the fight mechanics, even when nerfed, don't corrolate well to an environment where there may not be anyone who knows the fight. Blizz is relying on seasoned players to educate the masses, and that's probably not fair.

Given the introduction of Flex, what I would do in 6.0 is make LFR completely separate content, like a scaled up H Scenario, where the objectives were clearly given at each stage along the way. Think 25-man versions of the ICC Heroic dugeons. Have them support the story, but not be the whole story the way they are now.

How on earth does Blizz expect a non-communicating group to correctly navigate a fight like Spoils? or even Protectors?
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Re: Socially engineering a better (worse?) player base

Postby Flex » Thu Oct 17, 2013 1:21 pm

halabar wrote:How on earth does Blizz expect a non-communicating group to correctly navigate a fight like Spoils? or even Protectors?


By communicating
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Re: Socially engineering a better (worse?) player base

Postby Worldie » Thu Oct 17, 2013 1:38 pm

Communicating and being social in a online game? What's this madness.
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Re: Socially engineering a better (worse?) player base

Postby Lieris » Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:29 pm

halabar wrote:Given the introduction of Flex, what I would do in 6.0 is make LFR completely separate content, like a scaled up H Scenario, where the objectives were clearly given at each stage along the way. Think 25-man versions of the ICC Heroic dugeons. Have them support the story, but not be the whole story the way they are now.


I think the problem there would be trying to design satisfying encounters that aren't a mindless chaotic zerg with 25 people and be something that you would want to do more than once. I don't know if it can be done.

Spoils can be very frustrating even if you have someone who is trying to raid lead and split the groups. There will be people AFK or just not reading the chat. Maybe it would have been better if the fight was slightly re-designed so that all 25 players are in one group clearing all 4 rooms together.
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Re: Socially engineering a better (worse?) player base

Postby halabar » Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:33 pm

Lieris wrote:
halabar wrote:Given the introduction of Flex, what I would do in 6.0 is make LFR completely separate content, like a scaled up H Scenario, where the objectives were clearly given at each stage along the way. Think 25-man versions of the ICC Heroic dugeons. Have them support the story, but not be the whole story the way they are now.


I think the problem there would be trying to design satisfying encounters that aren't a mindless chaotic zerg with 25 people and be something that you would want to do more than once. I don't know if it can be done.

Spoils can be very frustrating even if you have someone who is trying to raid lead and split the groups. There will be people AFK or just not reading the chat. Maybe it would have been better if the fight was slightly re-designed so that all 25 players are in one group clearing all 4 rooms together.


Well, if you change the mechanics further, like they did with Noushie.

But really, with the advent of Flex, LFR potentially could move in a different direction than just being the nerfed version of the normal raid.
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Re: Socially engineering a better (worse?) player base

Postby Nooska » Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:30 am

LFR will always* be the nerfed version of the normal raid. If you start doing something else its a whole new set of content, which removes resources (be that even just time) from developing the other end game content we want.

The scenario instructions could be a way to go - have you tweeted it @ GC? It would also actually eductae and train the people in LFR so they COULD graduate to flex+.

I agree completely that its a problem that there is no guidance in LFR - reading the dungeon journal is a no go during a raid (after a wipe), and not having seen the fight to begin with the dungeon journal, honestly, isn't very helpful (even for someone who has raidlead and strategized previously).



* - If it isn't, then its new content, even if it would sitllbe called LFR - same deal as heroics suddenly becoming 3-man role-independant content (converting to scenarios) - it could still bec alled heroics, but would be different content alltogether.
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Re: Socially engineering a better (worse?) player base

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:51 am

Ideally it'd be nice if they could add diagrams and even small animations to the dungeon journal to demonstrate the abilities described.

Even simple stuff like "this is what the arrow over your head will look like", "this is what part of the room the floor effect will cover".
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Re: Socially engineering a better (worse?) player base

Postby lythac » Fri Oct 18, 2013 5:18 am

halabar wrote:
Lieris wrote:Spoils can be very frustrating even if you have someone who is trying to raid lead and split the groups. There will be people AFK or just not reading the chat. Maybe it would have been better if the fight was slightly re-designed so that all 25 players are in one group clearing all 4 rooms together.


Well, if you change the mechanics further, like they did with Noushie.


Spoils could automatically port 1 tank, 3 healers and split the DPS to each side wen you start the encounter? Has issues if people sign as healer and go DPS.
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Re: Socially engineering a better (worse?) player base

Postby Skye1013 » Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:56 am

KysenMurrin wrote:Ideally it'd be nice if they could add diagrams and even small animations to the dungeon journal to demonstrate the abilities described.

Even simple stuff like "this is what the arrow over your head will look like", "this is what part of the room the floor effect will cover".

Do want. I tried using the dungeon journal in the past to get some glimmer of an idea of what to expect... ultimately it was just a bunch of words that didn't mean anything until I actually saw how the fight worked. Sure, knowing that X ability does Y damage and you should try to avoid it is great... but if I don't know how to determine when X ability is happening*... what good does that knowledge do me?

*Maybe I'm healing, so I don't have the boss targeted to see his cast bar or the floor indicator isn't distinguishable enough to notice without someone pointing it out. Oh, it's a debuff that shows up on your debuff bar? Now I know to look for that...
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Re: Socially engineering a better (worse?) player base

Postby fuzzygeek » Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:19 am

KysenMurrin wrote:Even simple stuff like "this is what the arrow over your head will look like", "this is what part of the room the floor effect will cover".


This would be brilliant. Bonus points for showing the player's model running out of fire and living, or standing in fire and dying.
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