Coming Back to WoW?

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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby fuzzygeek » Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:37 am

I have a guildie who got 0 secrets from 26 non-Lei Shen bosses in a row. He ended up getting the last 12 he needed over the course of two weeks, but the RNG nature of it was still bullshit.

Not to mention the ridiculous time penalty on people who swap mains. Some kind of additional questline to make the legendaries account bound or in-account transferable with a 1 week CD or something would have been smart.
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Teranoid » Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:55 am

Lieris wrote:I resubbed around the second week of august and have been doing LFR every week since then and completed the 3K Valour thing in the most efficient manner possible. If I am lucky I will finish the cloak by the end of the month.

Of course it should be expected of people who have stayed subscribed all year but I don't think it's fair that returning players be locked out of heroic raiding for 3 months if that's what they want to do and have a guild willing to gear them up.


If you have a guild willing to take you then it should not be an issue for them to wait for you to finish the questline. We finished ToT 8/13H with 3 people not having their metas and I'd like to think we did just fine. Hell we just had two of them finish their cloaks last week.

If you're a quality player and the group is competent enough to realize "hey shit happens" then this shouldn't be an issue. If it is.. well maybe you should find another group.

I'm not defending Blizzard by the way because I think this entire legendary chain was fucking stupid from the power of the items to basically rendering main swaps almost impossible unless you spent 15 hours a week doing LFR on multiple characters.
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Lieris » Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:32 am

fuzzygeek wrote:I have a guildie who got 0 secrets from 26 non-Lei Shen bosses in a row. He ended up getting the last 12 he needed over the course of two weeks, but the RNG nature of it was still bullshit.

Not to mention the ridiculous time penalty on people who swap mains. Some kind of additional questline to make the legendaries account bound or in-account transferable with a 1 week CD or something would have been smart.


Agreed.

Teranoid wrote:If you have a guild willing to take you then it should not be an issue for them to wait for you to finish the questline. We finished ToT 8/13H with 3 people not having their metas and I'd like to think we did just fine. Hell we just had two of them finish their cloaks last week.

If you're a quality player and the group is competent enough to realize "hey shit happens" then this shouldn't be an issue. If it is.. well maybe you should find another group.

I'm not defending Blizzard by the way because I think this entire legendary chain was fucking stupid from the power of the items to basically rendering main swaps almost impossible unless you spent 15 hours a week doing LFR on multiple characters.


Missing one proc, that's manageable especially if it's a tank or healer. Missing both procs as DPS, that's just not possible.

I just see it as something that would be insurmountable should I have wanted to join a heroic guild for 5.4. If you don't have the gear because of the ridiculous item inflation and you don't have the legendary items plus on top of that the penalty for being melee in SoO then it really doesn't matter how good my application would be, I would be expecting others to carry me or just be brought along for farm bosses.

Just to reiterate (before anyone gets any ideas) I am not complaining, I don't want to raid heroic modes. I think it's clear though that the numbers and scaling on gear have become completely ridiculous and despite this being increasingly obvious since WotLK beta they've stupidly continued down this path. When you have ridiculous overpowered gear (with now 6+ different tiers of gear within each tier creating a gulf between the lowest and highest ends) because of scaling you need BOTH overpowered procs to even compete.
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Worldie » Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:53 am

I remember a blue post stating the droprate for all q items got buffed to 25%.

Though, I might have just dreamed it, doesn't necessarly have to be true.

And yeah, RNG bullshit is still bullshit even with 99% chance.
I remind one guildie rogue who still hadnt got his meta when people were already getting the step 4 completed.

While I like the idea of rewarding a hard work through lot of time for the legendary, I dislike that the punishment for changing main and returning players is too strong.
For how sad it is, for a serious hc raiding guild, unless you are a REALLY outstanding player worth taking even without, or a healer or tank whose procs arent *that* necessary (though still strong), if you are a DPS the meta and cloak provide such a stupidly high increase in damage done that not having it is almost as having 20+ ilvls less than a person with them.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Passionario » Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:44 am

So how good is WoD? Asking for a friend. :D
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Worldie » Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:58 pm

Awesome, in general. Though, it's easy to "run out of stuff to do" if you don't raid and have no way to get a solid 3v3 5v5 or rbg team.

More specific question can provide more specific answers.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Arnock » Wed Jan 14, 2015 7:27 pm

How does WoD compare to previous xpacs in playstyle? How does tanking and healing compare to, say, wrath?

I quit shortly before cataclysm, and tried to play again in panda, but wasn't feeling it and quit again a few months later.

I don't really have the time to commit to a full raid schedule anymore, and gave LFR a chance, but I was a bit disappointed when the fight instructions I was given as the main tank were: "Ignore mechanics."
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Skye1013 » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:49 pm

Can't really comment on the tanking bit, but for healing, you can actually go OOM if you aren't careful. A lot of that onus falls to the dps, making sure they aren't taking unnecessary damage and are doing enough damage to not drag out fights.
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby lythac » Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:17 am

Arnock wrote:I don't really have the time to commit to a full raid schedule anymore, and gave LFR a chance, but I was a bit disappointed when the fight instructions I was given as the main tank were: "Ignore mechanics."


With Normal and Heroic being Flexible size you should be able to find a guild where you can raid as little as 1 or 2 nights a week I would imagine. If you're a healer or ranged DPS that is.
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Worldie » Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:41 am

Don't bother with LFR, the goal this Exp was to make it even more facerollable than in MoP, and they succeded.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby honorshammer » Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:11 am

Worldie wrote:Don't bother with LFR, the goal this Exp was to make it even more facerollable than in MoP, and they succeded.


It's not a bad way to fill in some gear slots until you get a Normal or Heroic drop.
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Quietmode » Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:13 am

I do LFR for the Runes (An the lolz, topping dps as a tank is fun)
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Arnock » Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:05 pm

Worldie wrote:Don't bother with LFR, the goal this Exp was to make it even more facerollable than in MoP, and they succeded.



Well, that's... disappointing.

lythac wrote:With Normal and Heroic being Flexible size you should be able to find a guild where you can raid as little as 1 or 2 nights a week I would imagine. If you're a healer or ranged DPS that is.


Wait, normal and heroic have flexible raid sizes? I haven't kept up much with the news since quitting, but I thought flex was a separate tier between LFR and Normal in difficulty.

Also, are healers and dps actually in greater demand than tanks? That's pretty surprising.



How does tanking compare to panda? I wasn't crazy about how they shifted to the philosophy of passive threat/active mitigation instead of passive mitigation/active threat.
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Jadhzia » Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:32 pm

In fact, I feel that the current tier is the first one where we have four real, distinct, first-citizen difficulty modes. In Siege of Orgrimmar, flex felt more like an afterthought stuck between LFR and Normal...

This time LFR was made simpler, and it's actually pretty nice, because I have yet to see the neverending dramas we had in LFR-SoO last year. In 30 minutes, you clean a wing, smoothly and without pulling your hair even with half the raid made of incompetent/afk players. For the first time I even tagged in LFR as tank when I still needed gear from it. ;) And the short duration of LFR runs makes for shorter queues, it seems.

As for Normal and Heroic modes, yes they're flex, from 10 to 30 players. The scaling's supposed to be smooth, without noticeable breakpoints. At least in Normal mode, I can confirm that we didn't feel anything different with varying raid sizes, from 12 to 18.

I don't have any number to back this up, but I don't believe that dps are in greater demand than tanks or healers. Healing is now a bit more demanding and frustrating than in the previous expansion (but also more interesting, imho), which turned a number of people from that role when heroic dungeons were still relevant. Maybe that trend is reversing now, I don't know.

As for tanking, the mechanics are mostly unchanged from the previous expansion: you have to actually work for your ressources and your survival, but threat is completely irrelevant. The only major differences are 1) tanks rely more on their healers for survival and 2) Vengeance was removed and replaced by Resolve, so that our dps doesn't go through the roof artifically. Oh, and palatanks actually have good snap threat generation, for a change. ;)
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Arnock » Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:18 pm

Can't speak for panda and cataclysm, but from what I remember in TBC and wrath, we always had good snap threat. Didn't need to wait to build rage or sunder stacks, could just throw a shield, drop a consecration, and start whaling on the boss right away.
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Koatanga » Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:28 pm

It's quite difficult for healers to transition from normal instances to heroic ones. The damage on heroic boss fights comes from several sources and it seems like DPS take just as much as tanks do. I swear, healing that freaking train is the worst.
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby honorshammer » Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:50 pm

Koatanga wrote:It's quite difficult for healers to transition from normal instances to heroic ones. The damage on heroic boss fights comes from several sources and it seems like DPS take just as much as tanks do. I swear, healing that freaking train is the worst.


CC the gunners.
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Archimeades » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:12 pm

Well, that brings back memories. Haven't had a paid up account in almost exactly 6 years. New co-workers are big into it and got me thinking about it. I wonder if Blizz still has my characters stored on a server somewhere, or if all that time and effort has disappeared.
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Jadhzia » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:32 pm

Arnock wrote:Can't speak for panda and cataclysm, but from what I remember in TBC and wrath, we always had good snap threat. Didn't need to wait to build rage or sunder stacks, could just throw a shield, drop a consecration, and start whaling on the boss right away.


Indeed I was mostly refering to MoP, where the paladin was really bad at snap aoe threat. This was largely corrected in WoD with a considerable boost to Holy Wrath (which you can boost even more with a talent and/or a glyph).

Archimeades wrote:Well, that brings back memories. Haven't had a paid up account in almost exactly 6 years. New co-workers are big into it and got me thinking about it. I wonder if Blizz still has my characters stored on a server somewhere, or if all that time and effort has disappeared.


They store all characters indefinitely.
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Arjuna » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:03 pm

honorshammer wrote:
Koatanga wrote:It's quite difficult for healers to transition from normal instances to heroic ones. The damage on heroic boss fights comes from several sources and it seems like DPS take just as much as tanks do. I swear, healing that freaking train is the worst.


CC the gunners.

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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Worldie » Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:47 am

Or skull them and just nuke them first and face them away from the party. If you want to be perfect, you can even dance out of the "breath" and take just 1-2 ticks everytime.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Arnock » Sat Feb 14, 2015 5:05 pm

Out of curiosity, how easily can off-specs tank and heal?

For example, could a balance druid or spriest heal five-mans while leveling? Or could a Feral druid or Windrunner monk tank five mans?
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Worldie » Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:19 pm

Pre 85? Easily. At level 85+ ? Don't bother, with leveling gear, people ignoring mechanics and no istants, aoeheals or cds as offspec you are up for a super hard time

For tanking, if you are good you can pull it off as offspec but Ret has no AoE to hold aggro, and WW monk dont even have access to the tank stance. War-Dk-Druid can pull that off but it's very hard past 80
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Kelerei » Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:54 am

Arnock wrote:Wait, normal and heroic have flexible raid sizes? I haven't kept up much with the news since quitting, but I thought flex was a separate tier between LFR and Normal in difficulty.


Haven't read through the rest of the thread yet, so this may have already been answered:

  • Raid Finder is still Raid Finder. As Worldie said, it's even more faceroll now.
  • Normal in Draenor is roughly equivalent to Flexible in Siege of Orgrimmar, and scales from 10 to 30 players.
  • Heroic in Draenor is roughly equivalent to Normal in previous expansions, and scales from 10 to 30 players.
  • Mythic in Draenor is roughly equivalent to Heroic in previous expansions, and has a fixed size of 20 players (the 10/25 debate is now a thing of the past).

Hope this helps sort out that confusion.
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Njall » Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:33 am

Yeah, I'm back. Been puttering around with Njall and a belf mage for a little while. Left just before Panda to play SWTOR. Left that due to the sheer number of bugs and their horribly server populations - they merged everything eventually but by then most players had quit. Started playing The Secret World which is still very good and very non-hand holding, but they have so little content....

In hindsight, I might have liked Panderia a lot. But after running my own guild, I made the realization how poorly I was being treated by my old WoW guild (which quite correctly booted me during my hiatus). If the core of a guild is a bunch of college buds, they will never, ever have room for you if there's a role conflict and they will never, ever make room for someone else if they have to kick the fire-stander drinking buddy out of the raid slot.

So. No guild but happy with LFR as the whole wife and kids and commute and never-ending-home-repair are somewhat time consuming. A pity server transfers are still damned expensive...

At least I have a lot of old content to explore now.

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