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Why can't I DPS?!

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Why can't I DPS?!

Postby Arkanite » Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:55 am

Ok, basically, I'm the only paladin tank in existence that does terrible DPS. I've seen many other paladin tanks either top the DPS charts on some boss fights or remain fairly high, I know this is due to vengeance, but I'm sure I'm getting the same vengeance aren't I? I'm always at the bottom of the DPS chart, always under my co-tank DK and always losing threat from him when AOE'ing adds, again, I put this down to not dealing enough damage. My gear isn't god awful, yet I just do not get it, I've had many people take a look at my gear, my talents, glyphs and even some logs, but I just don't get why I don't deal the damage that paladin tanks are supposed to. Even on Horridon, where paladins are meant to top the DPS charts, I barely touched 100k at the time of raiding that boss. (And yes, this was while solo tanking the boss and gaining many stacks of triple puncture just to get as much vengeance as possible.)

Here's my armoury link: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/twisting-nether/Arkanite/simple

If anybody can figure out why I deal no damage, please help me out. Thanks in advance and I hope someone out there can help me out.
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Re: Why can't I DPS?!

Postby Jackinthegreen » Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:37 am

Do you have any logs of you doing said crappy DPS? Without that only the gear and such can be looked at, and so far it looks decent though I think you can get another JC gem in there since 3 are allowed, yes? Have you looked at the rotations and such to see if you're not doing your priority right? What is your lag like? Are you hitting the rotational buttons like CS and J as soon as they come off CD? Are you using AW at the appropriate times?
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Re: Why can't I DPS?!

Postby Arkanite » Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:16 pm

Here's a log of a fallen protectors encounter earlier this week:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-d7195k4rf1tfqoep/sum/damageDone/

By the way, Nagzaz is the other tank, he is more geared than me, but to do double my dps?! This is what I don't understand, I'm supposed to be doing the most DPS as a tank due to basically being in DPS gear, yet I just can't seem to do anything...

I tend to save my Avenging Wrath for periods of large damage as it increases my healing by 20% so my EF is more effective. But this is still only a 20% damage increase, it would have to be a 100% damage increase for me to even do as much DPS as the druid tank.
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Re: Why can't I DPS?!

Postby Jackinthegreen » Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:47 am

The first thing I noticed is your CS:J ratio is waaaay off. If you're in melee range then CS use should be higher than J every time simply because of their cooldown ratios.

The usual rotation is CS-J-X-CS-X-J-CS-X-X (and then repeat) where X is a filler like Avenger's Shield. This generates the most HoPo as well as the most DPS. I forgot the exact priority, but I recall AS is right after J anyway regardless of a GC proc or not. Thus, your CS:J ratio should be in the neighborhood of 3:2 in favor of CS unlike that log where it's about 1:2 in favor of J. SotR is off the GCD, so it is not a filler in there. Do not prioritize Avenger's Shield, even with a GC proc, over CS or J. Theck has shown it's a DPS loss.

And no, you're not supposed to be doing the most DPS because you're in DPS gear. Blizz has realized prot likes haste and there's no turning back from it, so they've tuned our DPS with the assumption that we are going for haste while other classes might not go for DPS stats like crit or haste, although both of those do benefit the leather tanks just because they kind of need to so they can use agility leather which doesn't have any dodge or parry on it. They've also retuned some other classes to keep up with extra DPS such as giving DK and warrior tanks the Riposte ability which grants them 75% of their combined dodge and parry ratings as crit rating after they dodge or parry.
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Re: Why can't I DPS?!

Postby Arkanite » Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:27 am

Ok, thanks bud, I'll keep that in mind tonight and see how it goes ;)
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Re: Why can't I DPS?!

Postby oldboyz » Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:53 pm

i'm very very sad too with my dps
my DK tank has 10 less ilv (540) and i'm around 100k on last 6/12 run, while my pal(550) is around 70-80k dps (on a 9/12)
Norushen's challenge is ok with my DK, while i still miss 20% with my pal

the more i do flex with various tank, the more i see other class do better... i play my pal since Karazan, always played it as offensive tanking, was always the topdps tank... now i feel very very crappy :cry: (even if on another hand i feel much much more safer with my pal, not couting all the raid tools too)
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Re: Why can't I DPS?!

Postby mclem » Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:33 am

As a semi-related aside: How much of a damage loss would I expect if I tended to hit HotR instead of Crusader Strike? I haven't weaned myself off the muscle memory to hit HotR yet (and it was always overzealous, tending to prefer HotR to CS anyway); even if my ratio of CS/HOTR:J was good, how much would I lose from that?
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Re: Why can't I DPS?!

Postby econ21 » Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:14 pm

mclem wrote: How much of a damage loss would I expect if I tended to hit HotR instead of Crusader Strike?


You'll see some numbers Theck calculated here:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=32805

It seems to vary by vengeance, but HotR can be about half as much damage as CS on single target.
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Re: Why can't I DPS?!

Postby Extermi » Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:22 am

Hi,

sorry for the very picking up, just ran around this and took the opportunity to compare against my numbers:

Arkanite wrote:Here's a log of a fallen protectors encounter earlier this week:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-d7195k4rf1tfqoep/sum/damageDone/



I have ~540 gear and was actually feeling quite ok with the DPS on this encounter, even if I probably also made a coule of rotational mistakes (my DPS was roughly equivalent to your druid co-tank):

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-3 ... 697&e=2205

DPS cloak and meta contributed roughly 10% to this, I also prefer haste socketing.

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Re: Why can't I DPS?!

Postby Thels » Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:10 pm

Keep in mind that it's not only using the correct rotation, but also at the correct speed. If you do the proper rotation, but really slow, you'll obviously do less DPS.

You might want to consider installing an addon such as Ovale or CLC_Prot to tell you which button to press for max HoPo/DPS, until you got the rotation in your fingers.
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