Prot 5.4: HotR vs CS

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Prot 5.4: HotR vs CS

Postby Apol » Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:08 am

The simc model for protection seems currently favor Crusader Strike over HotR regardless of the number of adds. Is this an error? At what number of enemies does HotR pull ahead of CS in 5.4?
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Re: Prot 5.4: HotR vs CS

Postby Worldie » Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:57 am

In term of DPS, i don't know what the treshold is, but in terms of "keeping aggro" you wont really keep aoe aggro by spamming CS, so unless you are tanking a bunch of adds that don't need to be killed and really need that dps on 1 target and don't need to keep hotr on all the pack, using CS in aoe tanking is always a bad idea.
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Re: Prot 5.4: HotR vs CS

Postby Apol » Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:18 pm

I mean for damage. For example, on Dark Shaman is it a benefit to raid dps to HotR both targets or CS them singly?
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Re: Prot 5.4: HotR vs CS

Postby Schroom » Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:51 pm

I just checked my logs from our last Shaman kill.

HOTR: 18456.4

Nova: 6929

CS: 45462.4


so as it is a shared healtpool, 1 HoTR that hits both Shamans = 18456.4+6929+6929= 32314.4

so yeah CS wins. at the start with the wolves and later in the fight with the Blobs I?d switch over to HoTR for that period of time. with only 2 targets, even with shared health pool -> CS
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Re: Prot 5.4: HotR vs CS

Postby Worldie » Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:27 am

Nothing new there then, as CS has always been higher DPS on 2 targets :)
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Prot 5.4: HotR vs CS

Postby theckhd » Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:41 am

The break point ought to be around 3 targets under most circumstances, though obviously if you're trying to hold aggro on 2 targets you'd use HotR instead of CS.

SimC doesn't have an AoE rotation for Protection yet, which is why it no longer uses HotR.
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Re: Prot 5.4: HotR vs CS

Postby Apol » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:48 am

Worldie wrote:Nothing new there then, as CS has always been higher DPS on 2 targets :)

Since Dark Shaman share a health pool it's technically 4 targets in terms of effective AE damage if the splash damage is fully reciprocated.
Schroom wrote:I just checked my logs from our last Shaman kill.

HOTR: 18456.4

Nova: 6929

CS: 45462.4


so as it is a shared healtpool, 1 HoTR that hits both Shamans = 18456.4+6929+6929= 32314.4

so yeah CS wins. at the start with the wolves and later in the fight with the Blobs I?d switch over to HoTR for that period of time. with only 2 targets, even with shared health pool -> CS
Wouldn't the correct breakdown be:
18456 + 18456 + 6929 + 6929 + 6929 + 6929 = 64628? Or is the nova damage not mirrored? (Mirrored attacks in italics)
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Re: Prot 5.4: HotR vs CS

Postby Worldie » Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:11 am

Apol wrote:
Worldie wrote:Nothing new there then, as CS has always been higher DPS on 2 targets :)

Since Dark Shaman share a health pool it's technically 4 targets in terms of effective AE damage if the splash damage is fully reciprocated.

You are misunderstanding how shared health pools work.

If mob A and B have shared health pool, and they show as X HP, it means they have a total hp of X.
If you hit both mobs with a hotr for Y damage, that means you do 2Y damage to the total HP pool.

You are thinking it means that if you hit mob A, mob B takes same damage, but that's not how it works :)
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Prot 5.4: HotR vs CS

Postby Apol » Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:09 pm

Worldie wrote:
Apol wrote:
Worldie wrote:Nothing new there then, as CS has always been higher DPS on 2 targets :)

Since Dark Shaman share a health pool it's technically 4 targets in terms of effective AE damage if the splash damage is fully reciprocated.

You are misunderstanding how shared health pools work.

If mob A and B have shared health pool, and they show as X HP, it means they have a total hp of X.
If you hit both mobs with a hotr for Y damage, that means you do 2Y damage to the total HP pool.

You are thinking it means that if you hit mob A, mob B takes same damage, but that's not how it works :)

Thank you for this clarification! I don't know what I was thinking.
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