Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:42 am

You're discounting the threat from Glyph of Battle Healer. Our threat has never been snappy as other tanks.

When I get paired with a monk, I might as well have righteous fury off cuz none of those adds are gonna be hitting me anyways, thus my dps is crap for those parts.

And while it's not as bad with my warrior co-tank, she can just heroic leap and thunderclap and take away about half of my mobs in less than 1 sec.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Flex » Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:44 am

Klaudandus wrote:You're discounting the threat from Glyph of Battle Healer. Our threat has never been snappy as other tanks.

When I get paired with a monk, I might as well have righteous fury off cuz none of those adds are gonna be hitting me anyways, thus my dps is crap for those parts.


And?

Battle Healer threat was a bad idea. Having to turn off RF on fights to not steal threat from the other tank is dumbtarded.

And while it's not as bad with my warrior co-tank, she can just heroic leap and thunderclap and take away about half of my mobs in less than 1 sec.


That's not a new situation. Also quit tanking everything, or if you want to tank everything have the other tank DPS.

Also, are we talking trash? If so who cares.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:46 am

Not saying it wasn't retarded, but it was a bandaid of sorts for our slow ramping threat.

The thing is that I am seeing my cotank having an easier time picking up adds in fights like norushen and sha of pride than I do. I just don't generate the threat fast enough for the adds to get glued on me.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Flex » Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:48 am

Klaudandus wrote:Not saying it wasn't retarded, but it was a bandaid of sorts for our slow ramping threat.


Which only matters in trash and add fights, but I've never really had an issue on picking adds up off of DPS this expansion. I don't care if the other tank gets them as long as the DPS don't.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:51 am

I am having problems, which is why I am complaining. Then again, these guys are bursting like crazy (rogue and shaman with legen cloak) but still doesnt seem much of an issue when it is the warrior tank's turn to pick up adds on X fight.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Fenrìr » Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:22 pm

Paladin

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Eternal Flame's heal-over-time effect is increased by 50% when used on the Paladin (down from 100%).





I just...I dunno...lol
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:30 pm

Fenrìr wrote:
Paladin

Talents
Eternal Flame's heal-over-time effect is increased by 50% when used on the Paladin (down from 100%).





I just...I dunno...lol

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I give up.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Fetzie » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:14 pm

So that basically means "take whatever you like, at least until you have the T16 bonus"?
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Fenris » Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:52 am

Aaaaand back to sacred shield i go
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Thels » Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:19 am

Napkin math learns us that EF still is stronger per tick at 4 or 5 BoG stacks, and about equal at 3 BoG stacks.

And that's per tick. EF ticks twice as often (though SS has the advantage of being an absorb, and hanging around until it's used).
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Fetzie » Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:36 am

Thels wrote:Napkin math learns us that EF still is stronger per tick at 4 or 5 BoG stacks, and about equal at 3 BoG stacks.

And that's per tick. EF ticks twice as often (though SS has the advantage of being an absorb, and hanging around until it's used).


*and not needing to wait ~20 seconds before you can reasonably cast it
*and not costing holy power
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Marilee » Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:28 am

Reduced the activation rate for caster and healer Legendary cloak effects for characters in a tanking specialization by 75%.


Eh???? Were people using caster/healer legendary cloaks as tanks?
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby daishan » Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:34 am

I think Sloot tested the healer one on ptr and said it wasn't worth it.
I did hear last night that some tanks where getting crazy high dps from the caster cloak but I couldn't find any logs to back it up.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Fetzie » Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:39 am

Marilee wrote:
Reduced the activation rate for caster and healer Legendary cloak effects for characters in a tanking specialization by 75%.


Eh???? Were people using caster/healer legendary cloaks as tanks?


The caster dps cloak would spread a DoT to everything in melee range that dealt damage equal to 2x spell power (= AP) over 4 seconds. What with getting 400-500k AP in heroic modes, that was a ton of damage on add fights.
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Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Sagara » Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:43 am

Glad that came to pass before I heard about it. Running aorund with -THREE- legendary capes would have been... unusual XD
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby theckhd » Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:06 am

Marilee wrote:
Reduced the activation rate for caster and healer Legendary cloak effects for characters in a tanking specialization by 75%.


Eh???? Were people using caster/healer legendary cloaks as tanks?

Yes: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/6f42 ... 535&e=2037
(Note that this is 25H, WoL currently doesn't recognize the difference between N and H)

Essence of Yu'lon (DPS cloak proc) was 18% of my damage done, second only to AS.
Not sure if the healer cloak would have really been worth it (though if it ended up allowing you to drop a healer, then on some fights it would be), but probably better for them to just hit it preemptively.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Ruldar » Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:04 am

30% less wild imp damage and 40% reduced chance for UVLS procs? The Lock is going to be feeling those changes.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Newsom » Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:16 am

daishan wrote:I think Sloot tested the healer one on ptr and said it wasn't worth it.
I did hear last night that some tanks where getting crazy high dps from the caster cloak but I couldn't find any logs to back it up.


Our logs are private but I can confirm the caster cloak did some really crazy numbers, especially on cleave fights like Spoils. It was usually my top damage ability (close to the same output as Consecration and Avenger's Shield on multiple targets). It scaled really well with vengeance.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Worldie » Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:43 am

I'm amazed that they had nerfed the melee and tank cloak for the very same reason on the PTR and didn't think of the other 2 cloaks.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby econ21 » Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:27 pm

Fetzie wrote:*and not needing to wait ~20 seconds before you can reasonably cast it
*and not costing holy power


Oh well - I was just getting used to EF. It seemed more interesting gameplay wise than SS (maybe just because it was less obvious what was optimal usage). And it was fun to heal more than a resto druid in a flex run (probably says more about the resto).

We should not complain, I guess - as we had gone from one no brainer SS to another no brainer EF. Now, they seem more or less balanced.

I guess it's back to SS until the 4pc.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:31 pm

It only took them almost two months...

Protection
Protection Paladins are now eligible to receive plate armor with Haste via person loot (Raid Finder and Flexible difficulty) and bonus rolls (all difficulty modes) from Siege of Orgrimmar and Ordos.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Fetzie » Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:34 pm

Klaudandus wrote:It only took them almost two months...

Protection
Protection Paladins are now eligible to receive plate armor with Haste via person loot (Raid Finder and Flexible difficulty) and bonus rolls (all difficulty modes) from Siege of Orgrimmar and Ordos.


Two months? More like nearly 2 years! This has been overdue since they gave us Sanctity of Battle in MoP beta.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Marilee » Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:46 pm

Praise be unto Blizzard!!!!!!!

PS dammit, why'd you take so long
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby fuzzygeek » Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:28 pm

This actually doesn't help us much, as it just shits up the loot tables with more things, which reduces the odds of getting what you want when you actually roll something other than gold.

Immerseus, the Hit/Haste bracers are 1/3 items on the ret table, but 1/5 items on the prot table.
Protectors: Mast/Haste Shoulder+Hit/Haste belt are 2/3 items on ret 2/5 on prot.
Iron Jug: Haste/Mast belt is 1/4 ret, 1/4 on prot (wash)
Dark Shaman: Crit/Haste Boots probably still ret-only.
Spoils: Crit/Haste ring probably still ret-only.
Siegecrafter probably the big winner, with the Ring/Mace on the same spec now, so that's nice.
Garrosh also a wash, being 1/3 on either end.

Ordos belt/wrist/pants are 3/9 ret, 3/10 prot.

(I made a shopping list of the loot listed in the dungeon journal by spec to figure out what spec to use bonus rolls on for which bosses http://bit.ly/SoOshopping )

Does anyone know if you can coin-roll heirlooms, by the way?

But yeah. It's nice that they did this, but still not necessarily that useful. Spec juggling may still be necessary on a boss-by-boss basis.

Perhaps next expac they'll figure out an itemization scheme that doesn't make us completely dismiss certain bits of gear.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Fenrìr » Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:54 am

I've heard you cannot coin roll the hierlooms, but it's only hearsay.
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