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Patch 5.4 lore and beyond [Spoilers]

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Re: Patch 5.4 lore and beyond [Spoilers]

Postby bldavis » Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:38 pm

foresaken...i say let them raise the dead of the horde as new members of the race and that is all, they can keep UC, who would want it anyway, but gtfo of gilneas

orcs - they can keep the desert of durotar..let the alliance keep their road through southern barrens (though not much point with theramore being gone now,,,) and as long as both sides live up to the no fighting, i have no issues

really the only place that WAS alliance territory before the horde came is lorederan, and now it is a plague infused cesspit (and i am saying this as someone who's main toon right now is a foresaken dk)
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Re: Patch 5.4 lore and beyond [Spoilers]

Postby KysenMurrin » Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:53 pm

Klaudandus wrote:I think that they need to kill several faction leaders to get the ball rolling.

Kill Malfurion, for the reasons I stated above. Kill Velen too, the Draenei might be forced to appear in stories if Velen is not there anymore. Kill Sylvannas too.

I don't know about actually killing Velen, but an attack on Exodar during the eventual Burning Legion invasion would be a good excuse to revamp the Draenei capital and starting area as well as provide interesting story for them.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Sabindeus » Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:56 pm

Klaudandus wrote:
Worldie wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:Seriously though, the Elves would be the first race I'd accept an honest peace accords with if they were to propose it. We were coexisting fine until the third war.

I don't know if Blood Elves can ever accept how the Alliance treated them at Illidan times.

As far as I know, Elves have long memory and value personal honor very high.


It helps that the elves live for thousands of years, so they were alive when some of the slights actually happened.


thousands of years?? what slights??
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Re: Patch 5.4 lore and beyond [Spoilers]

Postby Sabindeus » Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:58 pm

bldavis wrote:they can keep UC, who would want it anyway


maybe all the survivors of Lordaeron who fled to Stormwind during the third war?
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Sagara » Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:28 pm

Worldie wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:Seriously though, the Elves would be the first race I'd accept an honest peace accords with if they were to propose it. We were coexisting fine until the third war.

I don't know if Blood Elves can ever accept how the Alliance treated them at Illidan times.

As far as I know, Elves have long memory and value personal honor very high.


Yeah, but they came dreadfully close to up and move their alliegance in 5.1. It's clear that at least Lor'Themar is willing to see beyond Garithos' folly.
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Re: Patch 5.4 lore and beyond [Spoilers]

Postby bldavis » Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:28 pm

Sabindeus wrote:
bldavis wrote:they can keep UC, who would want it anyway


maybe all the survivors of Lordaeron who fled to Stormwind during the third war?

like i said...its a septic sludge pit...
if they want it..go for it
but i doubt anyone would even if it was their homeland
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
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Re: Patch 5.4 lore and beyond [Spoilers]

Postby Dantriges » Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:43 pm

Azeroth was hit by two major disasters, the plague and the cataclysm, Allaince and Horde fielded three major expeditions, one to Outland, one to Northrend, last one to Pandaria. Both nations were formed from the remaining survivors of the third war, we had some major conflicts in BC and Wrath and some fighting during Cataclysm with the cultists and elemental allies (but seems most of that was a burden on independant elements aka adventurers and some minor factions). Oh and the recent Horde-Alliance war. Somehow I doubt that the Alliance has the manpower to smash the Horde. Not because of the Horde´s strength but occupying and subjugating a land across the ocean is an expensive affair. Ok the Alliance can go full genocide but I doubt they have the manpower to actually pull it off when the Horde scatters. And some other Horde capitals are still standing. Oh and they still have to occupy the former orc land to keep out the other nasty critters that will move in after the orcs are gone.

So i don´t think Varian had much choice
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Passionario » Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:39 am

Sabindeus wrote:Really i think the Horde I hate most right now is the Forsaken/Sylvanas and her stupid plague.

My tinfoil hat theory is that Blizzard's writers initially intended for Sylvanas to become the post-Cataclysm expansion's final boss. That's why she was portrayed as an unrepentant monster in 4.0 quest lines, outright stating that the only difference between her and the Lich King is that she serves the Horde. Likewise, Garrosh himself at that point was written as an impulsive but well-meaning orc, who throws Krom'gar off the cliff for his dishonorable actions and all but threatens to do the same to Sylvanas.

However, when the time came to write MoP's story, someone with a higher pay grade decided that Garrosh would make a better final boss. That's why he took a 180-degree turn from his 4.0 self into Sha-eating, Theramore-bombing villainy and all of Sylvanas's dangling plot lines (like, say, the fate of Koltira) were suddenly dropped and forgotten.
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Re: Patch 5.4 lore and beyond [Spoilers]

Postby Sagara » Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:43 am

Considering Varian has officialy set his sights on the Forsaken, and Lor'themar himself acknoledges Sylvanas as a security risk, it don't think those lines have been dropped *quite* yet. More like, stuffed in the frigde.
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Re: Patch 5.4 lore and beyond [Spoilers]

Postby Darielle » Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:15 am

But it's definitely somewhat feeling like Garrosh was strung up at the last minute. They put effort into "making him feel like honor blah blah" and then suddenly threw him off the deep end when they realised people weren't getting quite so amped with Mists.
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Re: Patch 5.4 lore and beyond [Spoilers]

Postby Worldie » Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:27 am

Thing is Garrosh has been proposed as "main villain" since the Blizzcon which announced MoP, so it doesn't really sound like a last minute idea. Remember before that Blizzcon people though MoP would have been just a minigame or a april fool.
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Re: Patch 5.4 lore and beyond [Spoilers]

Postby Darielle » Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:34 am

Blizzcon which announced MoP, so it doesn't really sound like a last minute idea. Remember before that Blizzcon people though MoP would have been just a minigame or a april fool.


These two aren't mutually exclusive. Even after Mists launched, they hadn't really nailed out things like the direction they wanted to take the Legendary chain or a few other details
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Re: Patch 5.4 lore and beyond [Spoilers]

Postby Sabindeus » Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:30 am

Darielle wrote:But it's definitely somewhat feeling like Garrosh was strung up at the last minute. They put effort into "making him feel like honor blah blah" and then suddenly threw him off the deep end when they realised people weren't getting quite so amped with Mists.


I dunno, I really didn't get this impression. The progression seemed quite natural to me. Thrall put him in power, power corrupted as it is wont to do. Garrosh was always of the opinion that the Orcs were the master race since way back in WotLK, he just got the means to actually act on that belief, and it is not far fetched to think his character would do that.
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Re: Patch 5.4 lore and beyond [Spoilers]

Postby bldavis » Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:47 pm

to me, it seemed that he started out trying to do the right thing and be honorable..which is why he did what he did in silverpine and stonetalon mountains

but as the war continued, he had to deal with more and more pressure, and he looked up to his dad as inspiration, because he had been told all along that his dad was a great orc for what he did at the end of his life (killing mannoroth? and ending the bloodrage)

but his father was the one that STARTED the bloodrage to begin with..
grom wasnt the nicest guy anyway, before or after the bloodrage
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
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Re: Patch 5.4 lore and beyond [Spoilers]

Postby Darielle » Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:10 pm

I dunno, I really didn't get this impression. The progression seemed quite natural to me. Thrall put him in power, power corrupted as it is wont to do. Garrosh was always of the opinion that the Orcs were the master race since way back in WotLK, he just got the means to actually act on that belief, and it is not far fetched to think his character would do that.


There's a difference between Orcs as the Master race and "I'LL TAKE YOU ALL ON" though. Even when you don't pull the Sha of Pride into the equation, even in one singular story (Tides of War) Garrosh went from "KALIMDOR FOR THE HORDE" to "EVERYONE MUST DIE", and bleeding his own Horde in the process doesn't even give him the credit of even thinking ahead for Wall Fodder for that.

Like - He starts off strengthening the Horde and then 360's into a COME AT ME BRO, which is a bit out of place for him anwyay since he wants to be the guy that coming at every other Bro.
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