LFR/Flex and heroic raiders

Anything, including off-topic posts

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, Sabindeus, PsiVen

Re: LFR/Flex and heroic raiders

Postby halabar » Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:44 am

theckhd wrote:
halabar wrote:So, the addon would compare damage taken vs damage dealt, plus factor in the increase in boss health and damage done.

If I knew how to write it... (should also be written to judge healers as well).


I don't even think damage taken is necessary. Just (damage dealt) - (increase in boss health), normalized somehow. Probably

(damage dealt)/(encounter time)*(expected encounter length) - (increase in boss health).

Expected encounter length determined by a simple TTD measure (Boss Health / Raid DPS). Negative score means you're a liability.


No, I'd want to factor in damage taken as well. When considering "pugs" from my excessively large guild, I'd want to also know if they were standing in the poo, not bothering to move. Are they sucking up too much healing compared to the dps they contribute? I'd be more forgiving of a lower dps that isn't draining the healers dry (and this goes to counterbalance the impact of non-optimal fights).
Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

twinkfist wrote:i feel bad for the Mogu...having to deal with alcoholic bears.
User avatar
halabar
 
Posts: 9379
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:21 am
Location: <in the guild that shall not be named>

Re: LFR/Flex and heroic raiders

Postby halabar » Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:45 am

Sabindeus wrote:Of course I remember the GearScore days, but in those days I was in a guild and didn't have to PUG things...

SO basically what you're saying is I should unleash this add-on on an unsuspecting world and watch it crumble? >:D


Yes, yes you should...
Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

twinkfist wrote:i feel bad for the Mogu...having to deal with alcoholic bears.
User avatar
halabar
 
Posts: 9379
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:21 am
Location: <in the guild that shall not be named>

Re: LFR/Flex and heroic raiders

Postby halabar » Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:46 am

Klaudandus wrote:Sounds a lot like Wins Above Replacement. Wonder if there could be an addon that could calculate it.

I mean, I know there's already a TDD addon, I love using it.


Yep. KAR. (Kills above Replacement).
Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

twinkfist wrote:i feel bad for the Mogu...having to deal with alcoholic bears.
User avatar
halabar
 
Posts: 9379
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:21 am
Location: <in the guild that shall not be named>

Re: LFR/Flex and heroic raiders

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:49 am

halabar wrote:
Klaudandus wrote:Sounds a lot like Wins Above Replacement. Wonder if there could be an addon that could calculate it.

I mean, I know there's already a TDD addon, I love using it.


Yep. KAR. (Kills above Replacement).


Well, considering all the theorycraft going into the game, I think it's time we graduate into fullblown sabermetrics. =P

Does that mean that Theck gets to be played by Brad Pitt if they ever make a movie about paladin theorycrafting?
The Element of Forum Hyperbole
Image
---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)
User avatar
Klaudandus
 
Posts: 11223
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
Location: Texas' Armpit

Re: LFR/Flex and heroic raiders

Postby theckhd » Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:10 am

halabar wrote:No, I'd want to factor in damage taken as well. When considering "pugs" from my excessively large guild, I'd want to also know if they were standing in the poo, not bothering to move. Are they sucking up too much healing compared to the dps they contribute? I'd be more forgiving of a lower dps that isn't draining the healers dry (and this goes to counterbalance the impact of non-optimal fights).


That would be somewhat punishing for randomly-targeted damage mechanics though. Doubly so in many cases, because those mechanics often require that you move away, reducing your DPS.

Plus, you can get that information from a simple Damage Taken meter, which is already built into Recount/Skada/etc.

Friendly fire is another metric that could be worth including though. Ionization from heroic Jin'rokh comes to mind...
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 6.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 8003
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: LFR/Flex and heroic raiders

Postby theckhd » Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:12 am

Klaudandus wrote:Does that mean that Theck gets to be played by Brad Pitt if they ever make a movie about paladin theorycrafting?


Jeff Goldblum IMO. I was unreasonably influenced by Jurassic Park as a child. Also, he's from Pittsburgh, which is the wrong end of the state, but at least the right ballpark.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 6.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 8003
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: LFR/Flex and heroic raiders

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:20 am

Image

But seriously, sabermetrics are used to quantify player production and contribution to a team, so I don't see it far away where that can be done for raiding, its just a matter of someone actually do an addon based on the formulas.
The Element of Forum Hyperbole
Image
---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)
User avatar
Klaudandus
 
Posts: 11223
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
Location: Texas' Armpit

Re: LFR/Flex and heroic raiders

Postby Thels » Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:27 am

There's loads of people demanding 520+ for HC Scenario as well. As long as people can set requirements, they will.
ImageImage
User avatar
Thels
 
Posts: 1306
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 7:30 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: LFR/Flex and heroic raiders

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:31 am

I've seen people geared in 520+ do terrible. A KAR type metric might be better to quantify how good a player is.
The Element of Forum Hyperbole
Image
---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)
User avatar
Klaudandus
 
Posts: 11223
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
Location: Texas' Armpit

Re: LFR/Flex and heroic raiders

Postby oldboyz » Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:48 am

i miss an old recound's plug which displayed ilv (i don't think it was gearscore): i used it a lot to compare dps ranking vs ilv ranking :-)
i would really enjoy a better integration and have it in a single view
oldboyz
 
Posts: 218
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:48 am

Re: LFR/Flex and heroic raiders

Postby cdan » Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:28 am

Is anybody burnt out yet then?
cdan
 
Posts: 378
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:58 am

Re: LFR/Flex and heroic raiders

Postby mclem » Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:45 am

A metric for determining whether it's beneficial to remove a DPS would be reasonably effective, but I think the more interesting thing to try to determine is a metric to judge whether it's beneficial to add/remove a healer.
mclem
 
Posts: 447
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:12 pm

Re: LFR/Flex and heroic raiders

Postby Nooska » Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:46 am

I'm almost burtn out, but thats due to RL commitments and not due to wow (whcih I haven't played since sunday, and won't be able to till at LEAST tonight)

...

So, who do I see about reducing the amount of time I must invest in RL to get the rewards that should be mine? and how do I avoid having to do menial work (like cleaning) for the chance at lesser rewards (happy GF)?
(okay, lesser rewards may understating it, since a happy GF makes my life easier and.. happier?)

Who do I see to get the arbitrarily placed rewards like income and influence bettered for the investment I have= I mean I invest a LOT of my time into political stuff, I think I should recieve the reward of a happy GF just by doing that.


(The above is satire, glint in the ey and not seriously meatn at all)
Main Characters:
Nooska, Blood Elf BM/SV Hunter on Argent Dawn (EU)
Morosin, Bloody freezing orc death knight on Argent Dawn (EU)
Niisca, Shady forsaken "priest" on Argent Dawn (EU)

Keeper Emeritus of the BM hunters guide on Elitist Jerks and the wowhead version untill patch 5.3.
User avatar
Nooska
 
Posts: 1560
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:55 am

Re: LFR/Flex and heroic raiders

Postby halabar » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:49 am

Nooska wrote:I'm almost burtn out, but thats due to RL commitments and not due to wow (whcih I haven't played since sunday, and won't be able to till at LEAST tonight)

...

So, who do I see about reducing the amount of time I must invest in RL to get the rewards that should be mine? and how do I avoid having to do menial work (like cleaning) for the chance at lesser rewards (happy GF)?
(okay, lesser rewards may understating it, since a happy GF makes my life easier and.. happier?)

Who do I see to get the arbitrarily placed rewards like income and influence bettered for the investment I have= I mean I invest a LOT of my time into political stuff, I think I should recieve the reward of a happy GF just by doing that.


(The above is satire, glint in the ey and not seriously meatn at all)


And thus the thread ends. (Other than the plugin development by Sab.)
Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

twinkfist wrote:i feel bad for the Mogu...having to deal with alcoholic bears.
User avatar
halabar
 
Posts: 9379
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:21 am
Location: <in the guild that shall not be named>

Re: LFR/Flex and heroic raiders

Postby Sabindeus » Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:10 am

Nooska wrote:I'm almost burtn out, but thats due to RL commitments and not due to wow (whcih I haven't played since sunday, and won't be able to till at LEAST tonight)

...

So, who do I see about reducing the amount of time I must invest in RL to get the rewards that should be mine? and how do I avoid having to do menial work (like cleaning) for the chance at lesser rewards (happy GF)?
(okay, lesser rewards may understating it, since a happy GF makes my life easier and.. happier?)

Who do I see to get the arbitrarily placed rewards like income and influence bettered for the investment I have= I mean I invest a LOT of my time into political stuff, I think I should recieve the reward of a happy GF just by doing that.


(The above is satire, glint in the ey and not seriously meatn at all)


/slowclap
Image
Turn In, an NPC interaction automator - http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addo ... rn-in.aspx
User avatar
Sabindeus
Moderator
 
Posts: 10476
Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 9:24 am

PreviousNext

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Sulakor, Worldie and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there are 3 users online :: 2 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: Sulakor, Worldie and 1 guest