WoW or D3 expansion? The Dark Below

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Re: WoW or D3 expansion? The Dark Below

Postby Nooska » Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:28 am

Newsom wrote:Lor'themar has actually been pretty active this expansion. Both in 5.1 and 5.2.

This

Lor'themar has come about in a way as to actually be a candidate for warchief (or ruler of the independent blood elves, though gameplaywise that would not be doable unless alliance/horde was "killed" and we got a more EQlike faction system)

Also, while it is easy to register, that doesn't mean its a troll registration (it fits timewise, as well as thematically, and we have no other 'leads' on the next expansion).

@Lieris; I find your statements confusing; on the one hand you say that the last Blizzard game with a great storey was vanilla wow (rose coloured glasses? I remember starting and found very little cohesive story at all), and at the same time you want a "big bad" on the box, making their presence felt throughout the expansion ( without the saturday morning cartoo villain feel) - which would harken to Wrath of the Lich King, though I would argue that deathwing did not have a cartoon villain feel to him either (though I guess it depends on what cartoons you watched).
It's also an almost impossible balance, how do you have the big bad be felt throughout teh expansion, without thwarting him/her time and again? by fighting a losing campaign - which is not -storywise- a thing that builds up to winning at the end - thats ore of a "hold the line" ending - which would mean that the next expansion would have to be a continuation.
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Re: WoW or D3 expansion? The Dark Below

Postby lythac » Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:38 am

cdan wrote:A new race? What is the current version of Kung Fu Panda? Smurfs 2? Despicable Me 2?

New char creation screen has been leaked
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Re: WoW or D3 expansion? The Dark Below

Postby Lieris » Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:32 am

That's good to hear that Theron has finally come out of his shell. I still would have preferred Kael as a race leader though. :(

Nooska wrote:@Lieris; I find your statements confusing; on the one hand you say that the last Blizzard game with a great storey was vanilla wow (rose coloured glasses? I remember starting and found very little cohesive story at all), and at the same time you want a "big bad" on the box, making their presence felt throughout the expansion ( without the saturday morning cartoo villain feel) - which would harken to Wrath of the Lich King, though I would argue that deathwing did not have a cartoon villain feel to him either (though I guess it depends on what cartoons you watched).
It's also an almost impossible balance, how do you have the big bad be felt throughout teh expansion, without thwarting him/her time and again? by fighting a losing campaign - which is not -storywise- a thing that builds up to winning at the end - thats ore of a "hold the line" ending - which would mean that the next expansion would have to be a continuation.


I don't think vanilla WoW needed a big villain to tie it together, it had a lot of very well done small stories via sprawling quest lines that were extremely memorable and well loved (nearly all my favourites are from vanilla). I think the writing was excellent and the way it introduced new villains (Ragnaros, Nefarian, C'thun, Hakkar etc.) was expertly done.

WOTLK... open up a closet and Arthas is in there. Will he kill me? No! He's patient about giving me the time I need to get better gear so that I can be in his gang. That said I think the Wrathgate quest was a good example of setting back "the heroes" so that it's not all victories. I think setbacks like that are needed and they need to happen more often.

No rose tinted specs here. We can have a good discussion about the merits of WoW's story but SC2 and Diablo 3 had stories that were dreadful and almost universally despised. HOTS is insultingly bad.
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Re: WoW or D3 expansion? The Dark Below

Postby Fenrìr » Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:56 am

@Pfife, the only issue with your story arch is that Deathwing was blasted into oblivion, there is no corpse. /end nick pick XD




And Velen is an agent for the Legion? Did I miss horribly miss some retcon here?
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Re: WoW or D3 expansion? The Dark Below

Postby bldavis » Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:15 am

Fenrìr wrote:@Pfife, the only issue with your story arch is that Deathwing was blasted into oblivion, there is no corpse. /end nick pick XD




And Velen is an agent for the Legion? Did I miss horribly miss some retcon here?

are we SURE DW was blasted to oblivion? or was he just destroyed enough to let what was left of his corpse fall into the water?

and no not yet at any rate..though i will be estatic/pissed as all hell if that retcon happens (estatic cause i called it, but pissed as all hell cause it happened)
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Re: WoW or D3 expansion? The Dark Below

Postby Amirya » Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:10 am

Madness of Deathwing was merely a setback.
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Re: WoW or D3 expansion? The Dark Below

Postby melisandyr » Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:57 am

You could say that with Siege of Orgrimmar the "Leaders" story arc draws to a close, which gives them an opportunity to give us some fresh storylines in the next expansion.

From Wrathion's questline, it's clear he's focussed on the threat of Legion, but I think it's a big question as to whether they appear in the next expansion, or the one after that. Focussing on the Legion would give a strong opportunity to move the story back to strong characters such as Liadrin, Turalyon and Alleria. The reintroduction of Alleria in particular would give great potential for an Alliance Alleria vs Horde Sylvanus conflict early in an expansion, growing to a crisis point later, before redemption comes for both sides in facing a common foe, the Legion.

I'd like to see Lor'themar continue to take a central role in Horde storylines - it would allow Blizz to focus a bit on the Blood Elves, when they clearly don't think Silvermoon is worth redesigning as a flying zone, whilst not alienating all of the Horde. I could see a Horde Council being established, with Baine, Vol'jin and Lor'themar as joint rulers. Horde faction could do with a little nobility adding to them. I like the idea of Sylvanus remaining an outsider, whilst not turning completely to the darkness (part of me wonders if they weren't setting Sylvanus up to be the end boss of this expansion, before doing a U Turn to Garrosh after such a strong reaction against him).

As an alternative, we could have an expansion with the Zandalari Isles as the focus. I see really exciting potential for 3 patches of the expansion with no raids, dungeons or content as the Goblins deny that the island is sinking as a result of their industrialisation of Azeroth, before a 2 hour cinematic featuring a new troll hero Zandal'gore reveals that the Islands are falling into the sea as a result of climate change.
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Re: WoW or D3 expansion? The Dark Below

Postby KysenMurrin » Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:17 pm

This is my crazy "what I'd like to see", rather than what I think will happen:
Either the next expansion or the one after should be Burning Legion invasion themed; at the same time they should rework Outlands with a full overhaul, and add in the Demon Hunter as a hero class (my gut says ranged/melee/melee, using bows, polearms/staves, and dual wield). The Demon Hunter would start in the new Outlands at level 55, and only go to Azeroth after all of that content.

I'm not sure how they could handle Northrend, Cataclysm, and Pandaria in that setup, though. More timeline confusion than ever.
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Re: WoW or D3 expansion? The Dark Below

Postby Flex » Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:20 pm

The Burning Legion could move Outland through the twisting nether and send it on a collision course with Azeroth. The Demon Hunter opening quest chain prevents that, and takes him to 68.
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Re: WoW or D3 expansion? The Dark Below

Postby KysenMurrin » Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:30 pm

Hmm. Trying to work through the timeline convolutions gave me a thought. They could just go ahead and rearrange the levelling path while overhauling Outland. Cut out the 60-70 Outland, insert the new Outland at 90+, move around level ranges of WotLK (60-70)/Cata(70-80)/MoP(80-90) to fill the gap.
Never gonna happen, because damn that's a lot of work.
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Re: WoW or D3 expansion? The Dark Below

Postby Fenrìr » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:54 pm

bldavis wrote:
Fenrìr wrote:@Pfife, the only issue with your story arch is that Deathwing was blasted into oblivion, there is no corpse. /end nick pick XD




And Velen is an agent for the Legion? Did I miss horribly miss some retcon here?

are we SURE DW was blasted to oblivion? or was he just destroyed enough to let what was left of his corpse fall into the water?

and no not yet at any rate..though i will be estatic/pissed as all hell if that retcon happens (estatic cause i called it, but pissed as all hell cause it happened)



Yea, unless those tiny particles from the Dragon Soul can come back together. But I am sure they'll retcon it if it fits into their designs.
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Re: WoW or D3 expansion? The Dark Below

Postby Nooska » Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:11 am

KysenMurrin wrote:Hmm. Trying to work through the timeline convolutions gave me a thought. They could just go ahead and rearrange the levelling path while overhauling Outland. Cut out the 60-70 Outland, insert the new Outland at 90+, move around level ranges of WotLK (60-70)/Cata(70-80)/MoP(80-90) to fill the gap.
Never gonna happen, because damn that's a lot of work.

I think more, "never gonna happen" because its a reuse of an already known area - what would they do with it to make it not feel like a repeat of TBC? make a completely new outland? then they could just make that new one from scratch and not redo the levelling anyway.
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Re: WoW or D3 expansion? The Dark Below

Postby bldavis » Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:41 am

do we already have a thread for speculation about new expansions? if we dont why dont we rename this one?
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
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Re: WoW or D3 expansion? The Dark Below

Postby Newsom » Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:45 am

bldavis wrote:do we already have a thread for speculation about new expansions? if we dont why dont we rename this one?


Myeah, my original thread name was more along those lines. :P
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Re: WoW or D3 expansion? The Dark Below

Postby Pfife » Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:39 am

Fenrìr wrote:
bldavis wrote:
Fenrìr wrote:@Pfife, the only issue with your story arch is that Deathwing was blasted into oblivion, there is no corpse. /end nick pick XD




And Velen is an agent for the Legion? Did I miss horribly miss some retcon here?

are we SURE DW was blasted to oblivion? or was he just destroyed enough to let what was left of his corpse fall into the water?

and no not yet at any rate..though i will be estatic/pissed as all hell if that retcon happens (estatic cause i called it, but pissed as all hell cause it happened)



Yea, unless those tiny particles from the Dragon Soul can come back together. But I am sure they'll retcon it if it fits into their designs.


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If that giant chunk in the background survived (and two other parts wound up in Ogg and SW), then it is entirely possible that a sizable chunk of his lower half survived as well. I'm not going with a resurrection or anything, just a usage of the latent energies of his corpse. I hate pointless revivals as much as the next fanboy.

I think I may flesh out my original idea over the weekend. I like something I came up with that uses phasing and I really want to script the dialogue of the last two boss fights after thinking of how I want the lead in for the next next (or final). I think you can expect a wall of text from me at some point.
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Re: WoW or D3 expansion? The Dark Below

Postby bldavis » Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:31 am

there is the jaw chunks that are in SW/Ogr, as well as the one on the rock..
in the madness fight, we only say his front legs, head, and wings...basically from shoulders down is underwater
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
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Re: WoW or D3 expansion? The Dark Below

Postby halabar » Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:40 am

So.. apparently The Dark Below was also registered in the EU.
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Re: WoW or D3 expansion? The Dark Below

Postby Petrus » Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:06 am

I really hope it's a WoW expansion - I'm looking forward to killing Azshara, but I really hope it doesn't involve too much underwater stuff. I was one of the few people who enjoyed Vashj'ir and even I admit that it would have been better at around 2/3 of the length it was.
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Re: WoW or D3 expansion? The Dark Below

Postby Newsom » Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:50 pm

I just hope it's not all over the place like Cata was. Having a whole "continent" is way more fun.
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Re: WoW or D3 expansion? The Dark Below

Postby Fenrìr » Sun Aug 18, 2013 3:03 pm

bldavis wrote:there is the jaw chunks that are in SW/Ogr, as well as the one on the rock..
in the madness fight, we only say his front legs, head, and wings...basically from shoulders down is underwater


But wasn't it stated the jaw chucks that are in SW/Org the only thing that survived the blast?
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Re: WoW or D3 expansion? The Dark Below

Postby bldavis » Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:11 pm

Fenrìr wrote:
bldavis wrote:there is the jaw chunks that are in SW/Ogr, as well as the one on the rock..
in the madness fight, we only say his front legs, head, and wings...basically from shoulders down is underwater


But wasn't it stated the jaw chucks that are in SW/Org the only thing that survived the blast?

where was that stated?
i dont remember anything either way
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
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Re: WoW or D3 expansion? The Dark Below

Postby Fenrìr » Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:57 pm

Not going to put much stock in it, but Wowpedia states his body was obliterated with only pieces of his armor surviving.

Gods...I really feel like something was stated in game too. Hrm...
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Re: WoW or D3 expansion? The Dark Below

Postby bldavis » Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:08 am

if there was, i dont remember anything

ok just rewatched the end of the madness fight...and yeah it does appear his body does get obliterated..

if there is armor still, there could be some back plates (like the ones we blast off in the spine fight) down there...
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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Re: WoW or D3 expansion? The Dark Below

Postby benebarba » Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:58 am

bldavis wrote:if there was, i dont remember anything

ok just rewatched the end of the madness fight...and yeah it does appear his body does get obliterated..

if there is armor still, there could be some back plates (like the ones we blast off in the spine fight) down there...


I thought the jaw chunk on the rock was supposed to be brought back by the heroes to display in SW/Org (based on faction)...not that some peons came along to haul it away and were all like 'hey, this one's too big. Let's take that other one down there in the water instead.'.

the fact that the one on display is smaller may just be artistic license, kind of like having one in both SW *and* org. But then again, like any story franchise: if there is money to be made, the retcon will probably happen.
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Re: WoW or D3 expansion? The Dark Below

Postby bldavis » Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:01 am

huh?

the jaw chunk is something we have already said is on the rock/in SW/Ogr
i was talking about the plates on his spine, which 1 was knocked off of his back by the first dragon soul attack after ultraxion, then we knocked 2 more off (or was it 3?) in the spine fight. but there was still several more on either side of the spine fight area.

being we had to kill tendons holding them down, you can say that they were connected to his body, and probably have a bit of his corruption left attached, but being adamandite plates, they wouldnt be destroyed by the dragon soul that destroyed his body (case in point, his adamadite jaw was left)

but as you said, if there is a story arc that "needs it" *cough* retcons WILL happen...i mean look at the sargeras and eredar story!
original story was sargeras was corrupted by the eredar, and that lasted through the warcraft games and clear through classic
then with BC, and the introduction of the Draenei, suddenly Sargeras was driven mad by the futility of his task, gave in to chaos and approached the Eredar promising them power, which 2 of the 3 leaders took him up on...

bit of an about face isnt it?
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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