Healing weapon as prot

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Healing weapon as prot

Postby Authoritah » Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:36 am

does anyone have any thoughts on using healing weapon in protection spec for the faster speed ? it doesnt seem like seal of insight scales its selfhealing down based on weapon speed. i guess it would be a dps decrease because of the reduced damage on healing weapons and you would loose some strength/parry, but besides a dps nerf wich cant be very big with high vengeance and the low scale on weapon damage, wouldnt it be a survivability increase to get a SoI heal 0.4 seconds more often ?
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Re: Healing weapon as prot

Postby daishan » Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:53 am

I'm fairly certain that SoI procs are normalized to weapon speed.
So if you just auto attacked a fast weapon would proc SoI just as much as a slow one, but when you do a proper rotation slower weapons will actually net you more procs.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
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Re: Healing weapon as prot

Postby Authoritah » Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:09 am

ah lol, i saw it proc so much i thought it had a 100% chance, nvm my ignorance
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Re: Healing weapon as prot

Postby jere » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:27 am

In the old days, that was true for some seals. For example, Seal of Fury (old fogy time!) was a fixed amount of threat per swing, so faster weapons benefited it more than slower ones. Things change a lot over time!
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Re: Healing weapon as prot

Postby theckhd » Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:03 am

Seal of Insight is 20PPM, so a slower weapon will provide more procs than a faster weapon. This is actually a fairly significant effect too, so you never want to use a weapon that's slower faster than 2.6.
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Re: Healing weapon as prot

Postby Ironshield » Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:46 am

theckhd wrote:Seal of Insight is 20PPM, so a slower weapon will provide more procs than a faster weapon. This is actually a fairly significant effect too, so you never want to use a weapon that's slower than 2.6.

Wait I'm confused... slower or faster?
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Re: Healing weapon as prot

Postby daishan » Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:08 am

The slower the weapon the MORE procs we get.

I'll try not to confuse things.
If you have a real fast weapon lets say 1.0 to get 20ppm every 3rd swing would need to give you a proc, or each attack has a 33.3% chance.
If you had a very slow weapon, 3.0 to get 20ppm every swing would need to give you a proc, or every attack has a 100% proc chance.

To say it another way when normalizing proc rates to weapon speeds the game basses it on your auto attacks only but because special attacks can also proc SoI slower weapons give a higher % proc chance


Hope that's not too much of a mess Theck explained it really well somewhere in the MoP beta thread when I couldn't understand the weapon enchants we where testing.
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Re: Healing weapon as prot

Postby daishan » Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:42 am

Ah found it

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=32803&hilit=call+to+arms&start=570#p736471

theckhd wrote:PPM mechanics don't have an ICD. They use your weapon speed to determine a proc rate in order to normalize for weapon speed.

For example, if I have a 3.6-speed weapon, the proc rate for a 1 PPM enchant is
PPM*weapon_speed/seconds_per_minute = 1*3.6/60 = 0.06 = 6%.

A 3 PPM enchant would have a proc rate three times higher, or 3*3.6/60=18%. If we changed to a 2.6-speed weapon, the 3PPM proc rate would drop accordingly: 3*2.6/60 = 13%.

Special attacks that can proc it are a free bonus - they use exactly the same proc rate as white attacks. So while we generally use only melee attacks to determine the proc rate, in practice you'll get significantly more procs per minute than the given PPM value. In the case of Ret, you might get 3x as many (because their swing time is much longer than the GCD). Prot usually only gets 1.5-2x as many because more of our attacks are spells and our swing timer isn't as long compared to the GCD.


^^That's what i was trying to say :roll:
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Re: Healing weapon as prot

Postby Ironshield » Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:52 am

Thanks for explaining that, it makes a lot more sense now :)

but specifically I was querying Theck's conclusion:
theckhd wrote:...so you never want to use a weapon that's slower than 2.6.

I would have thought we never want to use a weapon that's: either, faster than 2.6, or possibly, lower than 2.6
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Re: Healing weapon as prot

Postby Jackinthegreen » Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:10 am

Yeah, that's a slip of the keys on Theck's part. Anything faster or with lower speed than the standard 2.6 strength 1h weapons will result in fewer procs. Thankfully the weapons we're meant to use are all in the neighborhood of 2.6 speed, so going faster than that won't happen. Though I am curious if Blizz will add a 2.7 weapon in the mix for SoO.

One thing to note, however, is that anything over 3.0 speed will not give greater benefits from SoI. The reason for that is because SoI is now 20 PPM, so a 3.0 speed weapon has 100% chance to proc. Anything slower will still be 100% (with no chance of double procs), so it will actually result in fewer SoI hits because of a slower weapon.
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Re: Healing weapon as prot

Postby theckhd » Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:27 am

Yeah, typo, I meant faster.
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