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Re: LGBT rights discussion

Postby Lieris » Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:08 pm

KysenMurrin wrote:People over here keep comparing the Russian law to Section 28, that banned the promotion of homosexuality in Britain during the 90s. It didn't criminalise anything, no one was ever prosecuted, but in practice, it still led to institutions banning people from even mentioning homosexuality, acknowledging it existed - or even talking about Section 28 itself. The worst of censorship was self-inflicted but still a direct consequence of the legislation.


The effects of Section 28 are sadly still felt today. My grandmother still thinks it was a good thing and seems to believe being queer is a learned behaviour that children should be shielded from entirely and that same gender parents are inferior to their het counterparts so "the state shouldn't encourage it". Needless to say when the time comes if she still holds such views she won't be having access to her great grandchildren. I've got my own baggage to deal with, I can't be bothered dealing with hers.

If the spectre of our section 28 still lingers today I imagine that the effects of Russia's hateful laws will probably outlive me.
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Re: LGBT rights discussion

Postby KysenMurrin » Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:42 pm

I actually didn't realise just how recent Section 28 was until I was checking up for that post. I thought it was back in the 70s or something, not 1988 to 2003.
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Re: LGBT rights discussion

Postby Shoju » Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:48 pm

So.... Here's a random question that I had no better place to ask. I'm fairly confident that I have a child who is Gay, or at the very least Bi-Sexual. I've always tried as hard as I could to make sure that my kids understand

1.) I love them no matter what.
2.) I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with someone's choices in life regarding who they want to love.

Do I broach the topic? Or do I wait until they come to me to talk about it?
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Re: LGBT rights discussion

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:03 pm

At least you should let him know what you think of recent lgbt news like Russia or gay marriage in the us, as part of some larger recent events/conversation. So that at least your kid knows you are keeping an eye on those topics and what you feel about them, whether its positive mention of the uk and the queen signing the ok to gay marriage or how you think Russia is stupid for their stance on homosexuality.
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Re: LGBT rights discussion

Postby Lieris » Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:15 pm

KysenMurrin wrote:I actually didn't realise just how recent Section 28 was until I was checking up for that post. I thought it was back in the 70s or something, not 1988 to 2003.


Yeah it lasted through the entire duration of my schooling. My dad had the fairly standard issue homophobic attitude of the time and school would not touch LGBT issues with a barge pole. Even though I knew I was queer since the age of 13 I didn't tell my parents until I was 19.

Shoju wrote:So.... Here's a random question that I had no better place to ask. I'm fairly confident that I have a child who is Gay, or at the very least Bi-Sexual. I've always tried as hard as I could to make sure that my kids understand

1.) I love them no matter what.
2.) I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with someone's choices in life regarding who they want to love.

Do I broach the topic? Or do I wait until they come to me to talk about it?


It sounds like you are going about it the right way. Be very vocal in their presence about supporting LGBT rights and families, having a zero tolerance attitude to homophobia and they will eventually feel comfortable talking to you about it. Maybe be very open about sending a donation to a charity that supports LGBT youth. Do you have other children? Maybe say outright in front of all of them together like at the dinner table that you will love and support them whatever their sexuality so none of them feel put on the spot.

I think it's not uncommon for parents to be direct about the topic (approaches range from well considered to ham fisted) but you know your child better than anyone and are probably best able to read them. Sorry this isn't much help!
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Re: LGBT rights discussion

Postby Shoju » Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:22 pm

Klaudandus wrote:At least you should let him know what you think of recent lgbt news like Russia or gay marriage in the us, as part of some larger recent events/conversation. So that at least your kid knows you are keeping an eye on those topics and what you feel about them, whether its positive mention of the uk and the queen signing the ok to gay marriage or how you think Russia is stupid for their stance on homosexuality.


Those are pretty common dinner topics in our house.

Maybe tonight I will bring up the UK change in laws. I don't think we've talked about that yet.

It sounds like you are going about it the right way. Be very local in their presence about supporting LGBT rights and families, having a zero tolerance attitude to homophobia and they will eventually feel comfortable talking to you about it. Do you have other children? Maybe say outright in front of all of them together like at the dinner table that you will love and support them whatever their sexuality so none of them feel put on the spot.

I think it's not uncommon for parents to be direct about the topic (approaches range from well considered to ham fisted) but you know your child better than anyone and are probably best able to read them. Sorry this isn't much help!


We are pretty vocal, and very supportive.
Other CHildren: Yes. I have 3 total. Maybe I will work that in with the UK talk.

It is helpful. I was hoping to bait you, and maybe a few others :) There is an outside chance that I'm wrong, but If I were wagering money on it, I'd say that I'd bet on it with reasonable certainty.

They've all heard the story about my roommate that I found out was gay in a very awkward type of way (for the longest time, I just thought he was a very private person. Then, I came home from work early).

I'm sure part of any fear about it, is centered around my parents. As I've said before, I grew up a Pastor's Son, and while my parents have... "softened" over the years, they haven't about that. I'm not even sure what they would say.

But I know I don't care either, and would do everything in my power to support them, even if it meant not associating with my parents because of any friction.
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Re: LGBT rights discussion

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:58 pm

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Re: LGBT rights discussion

Postby Levantine » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:48 pm

Shoju wrote:
Klaudandus wrote:At least you should let him know what you think of recent lgbt news like Russia or gay marriage in the us, as part of some larger recent events/conversation. So that at least your kid knows you are keeping an eye on those topics and what you feel about them, whether its positive mention of the uk and the queen signing the ok to gay marriage or how you think Russia is stupid for their stance on homosexuality.


Those are pretty common dinner topics in our house.

Maybe tonight I will bring up the UK change in laws. I don't think we've talked about that yet.

It sounds like you are going about it the right way. Be very local in their presence about supporting LGBT rights and families, having a zero tolerance attitude to homophobia and they will eventually feel comfortable talking to you about it. Do you have other children? Maybe say outright in front of all of them together like at the dinner table that you will love and support them whatever their sexuality so none of them feel put on the spot.

I think it's not uncommon for parents to be direct about the topic (approaches range from well considered to ham fisted) but you know your child better than anyone and are probably best able to read them. Sorry this isn't much help!


We are pretty vocal, and very supportive.
Other CHildren: Yes. I have 3 total. Maybe I will work that in with the UK talk.

It is helpful. I was hoping to bait you, and maybe a few others :) There is an outside chance that I'm wrong, but If I were wagering money on it, I'd say that I'd bet on it with reasonable certainty.

They've all heard the story about my roommate that I found out was gay in a very awkward type of way (for the longest time, I just thought he was a very private person. Then, I came home from work early).

I'm sure part of any fear about it, is centered around my parents. As I've said before, I grew up a Pastor's Son, and while my parents have... "softened" over the years, they haven't about that. I'm not even sure what they would say.

But I know I don't care either, and would do everything in my power to support them, even if it meant not associating with my parents because of any friction.


Late to the party, but damn I wish more parents were like you, hey.
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Re: LGBT rights discussion

Postby Nooska » Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:44 am

Now that we are on the advice asking train - having a kid thats approaching 9,, sexuality isn't a thing thats come up yet ofc. But as I see it, it's one thing for me to be a member of a political party thats openly supportive of LGBT rights etc, and also of me being politically supportive. As I see it, its quite another thing to make sure my son knows that I would be just as supportive (well more actually) on the personal level if thats the way it is. It snot something I've spent a lot of time considering (as I said, he is only 9, after all) but since the topic came up, I thought I'd ask what the thoughts were on how to show it without being direct.
(Then I can mull that over for 2-5 years depending on when it becomes relevant).
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Re: LGBT rights discussion

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:43 am

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Re: LGBT rights discussion

Postby Pfife » Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:54 am

Nooska wrote:Now that we are on the advice asking train - having a kid thats approaching 9,, sexuality isn't a thing thats come up yet ofc. But as I see it, it's one thing for me to be a member of a political party thats openly supportive of LGBT rights etc, and also of me being politically supportive. As I see it, its quite another thing to make sure my son knows that I would be just as supportive (well more actually) on the personal level if thats the way it is. It snot something I've spent a lot of time considering (as I said, he is only 9, after all) but since the topic came up, I thought I'd ask what the thoughts were on how to show it without being direct.
(Then I can mull that over for 2-5 years depending on when it becomes relevant).


I'm not even a father yet (that happens at the end of January!). But I have already considered "the talk" with my kids when they start learning it in school (or earlier if their development and outside stimulus demands an on the spot explanation). I know I want to find a way to explain what will be going on with their bodies (hormones and everything) and explain the purpose of it all. At that point I would bring up the terms heterosexual, homosexual and bisexual, explain each, explain how some fear the latter two, and tell them that their mother and I do not fear it at all. I will point them to a few of my friends that are gay, tell them how I found out, and tell them that one aspect of those people has no affect on my friendship with them. After all that, I will tell them that they will find out over the next few years where they fall in to those definitions. They do not need to fear any aspect of what they are, they do not need to fear any person or group that chooses to hate them, and they can count on the support and love of their mother, myself and their entire extended family (quite large on my side). They are not alone, and it is not a problem. It is only a problem for those who cannot handle others being different, and those people don't matter. My children will have every right to learn about and accept themselves without feeling pressure from anybody claiming they should not be a certain way sexually, and I will support them every step of the way.

Edit: I just realized I wrote that without putting in any actual advice (like I have any grounds to give any). I'd say steal my plan, Frankenstein it, or do whatever. Make sure your kid understands how some (and emphasize SOME) people are disapproving and if they are different, then they will have to deal with them. This is the case with anybody growing up and a little different than the perceived majority. But you are not disapproving and will love them no matter what. Keep showing your support for the LGBT community so your kid can learn to do the same and just be prepared to be more involved if your kid does come out (provided you are not a completely embarrassing parent and they don't want you near them in a public event). Or, heck, you could even try to show that beyond making sure that LGBT people have the same basic rights as everybody else and are not treated like sinners/garbage/devils/whatever, there is really no big deal about it and it is just another part of being human. There are almost too many ways to handle all this. Go with what you think your kid will resonate with. Pick an analogy and mode of thought they can understand and run with it (just be careful of any unfortunate implications if you try to equate LGBT with anything in pop culture).
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Re: LGBT rights discussion

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:24 am

X-posting from the Politics thread
----
http://www.ajc.com/weblogs/political-in ... -fox-news/
As part of a national journalism conference on Tuesday, August 20, America's Survival, Inc. (ASI), a public policy organization, is officially releasing a new report on radical changes at Fox News that should cause great concern to pro-family conservatives.
"Pushing Sean Hannity out of the 9:00 p.m. slot, to make way for pro-homosexual advocate Megyn Kelly, is another sign of the channel's left-ward drift and decline," said ASI President Cliff Kincaid, a veteran journalist and media critic.



Also, this PDF from said association...
http://www.usasurvival.org/docs/Kincaid ... -FINAL.pdf
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Reading parts of it, I wish I could shower myself with bleach...
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Re: LGBT rights discussion

Postby Sabindeus » Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:03 am

Klaudandus wrote:Also, this PDF from said association...
http://www.usasurvival.org/docs/Kincaid ... -FINAL.pdf
Image

Reading parts of it, I wish I could shower myself with bleach...


wow I am glad that I am mostly isolated from that sort of conservative nonsense here in NYC
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Re: LGBT rights discussion

Postby Shoju » Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:33 am

Klaudandus wrote:X-posting from the Politics thread
----
http://www.ajc.com/weblogs/political-in ... -fox-news/
As part of a national journalism conference on Tuesday, August 20, America's Survival, Inc. (ASI), a public policy organization, is officially releasing a new report on radical changes at Fox News that should cause great concern to pro-family conservatives.
"Pushing Sean Hannity out of the 9:00 p.m. slot, to make way for pro-homosexual advocate Megyn Kelly, is another sign of the channel's left-ward drift and decline," said ASI President Cliff Kincaid, a veteran journalist and media critic.



Also, this PDF from said association...
http://www.usasurvival.org/docs/Kincaid ... -FINAL.pdf
Image

Reading parts of it, I wish I could shower myself with bleach...



After skimming through that document, I hope that God, Heaven, and Hell are real, just so you can burn in hell for linking that document to me, you jerk. That has got to be the biggest echo chamber of homophobic, intolerant, shit I have ever had the misfortune of placing on my computer screen.

Censoring photos of people kissing is probably really what put it over the edge. SERIOUSLY!? Do you censor photos of your grandmother kissing your sister for decency as well?

These are the kinds of uninformed, closed minded, people who just.... well, they live ina world that passed them by 30 years ago, and can't evolve with the times.
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Re: LGBT rights discussion

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:39 am

I hope that God, Heaven, and Hell are real, just so you can burn in hell for linking that document to me, you jerk.

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I only linked to provide context to the kind of people that are claiming that Fox News is left-leaning.
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