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Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests Here)

Get help with your character's gear

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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Fetzie » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:33 am

Sagara wrote:Break time! I've just got two completely opposed views on the same question. Having been working on my own Simcraft, I'd be of a mind of following Thel's advice (my original opinion), but I'd really want to hear more as to why "the last bit of expertise" is less important to Fetzie and others like him.

In short, I *know* I will be called out on hard capping expertise at the cost of haste, and I want to do a dry run of the conversation I'll have.


It depends on how big "the last bit of expertise" is. If it means you are between 14 an 15%, then you only have a 1 in 100 chance to have the CS parried. Judgement doesn't benefit from Expertise above 7.5% (I think it can be dodged, but not parried) and AS generates the holy power regardless of whether it hits or not. The longest you'll have to wait for a Holy Power is the cooldown of your Judgement, so if you are banking to 5 all the time, the likelihood of having a "dry spell" actually impact your survivability by a noticeable margin (ShoR not ready when you need it) diminishes towards zero.

Personally I wouldn't drop below 14% expertise. But that's just my gut feeling. I don't have any math to back it up. I wouldn't sweat over being between 14.5 and 15% because the chance to lose the holy power is so low, especially when you approach 15%. Unless I was doing challenge modes, that is, because the trash in those is way more dangerous than any raid boss.

I prefer to hard-cap expertise and hit, but I won't go out of my way to get the last 1-100 rating if it means losing out on a 320 haste gem, for example.
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Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Sagara » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:44 am

Okay, so it's not so much a "exp is less important than haste", but more of a "don't waste itemization on overcapped expertise"

Like, if the choice is between 320 haste or 160 haste/40 exp (and 120 over cap), you'd say go for haste, but if it's between 320 haste and 160 haste and 120 exp (and 40 over cap), take haste/exp.

Am I getting your point right?
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Fetzie » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:51 am

Pretty much. Although I'm also saying that it is totally fine to be between 14.5 and 15% if it means your reforging gives you significantly more haste (say you can reforge a "big" stat (like 1100 parry rating on a tier piece or so) to haste, and almost make up the difference by reforging a couple of avoidance, crit or mastery items to expertise while reforging the 1100 parry to expertise would over-cap you regardless of your other reforges).
Last edited by Fetzie on Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Sagara » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:53 am

Great, I feel prety ready for that now.
BTW, any opinions on the neck/ring choices?
When that day comes, seek all the light and wonder of this world, and fight.

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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Fetzie » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:55 am

Sagara wrote:Great, I feel prety ready for that now.
BTW, any opinions on the neck/ring choices?

Using the TF twins necklace 2/2 upgraded because it allowed me to get more haste than I had with the 522 haste/mastery piece. Although I'm pretty sure it did that before I upgraded it too.
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Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Sagara » Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:21 am

Yeah, I had the intuition that as long as you don't have to reforge out of expertise for anything other than hit or haste, exp = haste = hit as far as gemming and reforging goes.

In fact, I'm probably even going to regem the neck into pure haste - 160 haste vs 90 stam and 300 mastery is not bad of a trade
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Promdates » Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:01 am

http://www.wowhead.com/compare?items=97 ... .0.0.145.2

This is comparing HTF items, although you could just look at the H versions. The chances of getting the trash drop be a HTF version (I have seen a heroic version, that was on I believe Treckie at the beginning of the tier) is very slim, so you should really compare the Tortos and Twins versions. Technically you could get more haste on the Tortos neck, the Twins one offers better overall stats.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Sagara » Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:05 am

Well, i'm pretty certain I'll load the HC version of the Twin neck, but it's more of a "show my best foot forward" with what I already got, and defending my short-term choices (i.e. Y U NO take Valor neck?)
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Fetzie » Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:11 am

Sagara wrote:Well, i'm pretty certain I'll load the HC version of the Twin neck, but it's more of a "show my best foot forward" with what I already got, and defending my short-term choices (i.e. Y U NO take Valor neck?)


"Because, with the gear I currently own, the Twins necklace gives me more useful stats"
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Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Sagara » Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:16 am

Yeah, I'm just slightly nervous (see avatar) and am trying to double check my own conclusions.
When that day comes, seek all the light and wonder of this world, and fight.

Worldie wrote:I used to like it [mean] back on Sylvanas.

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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Thels » Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:54 am

I feel like you're neglecting the usefulness of Expertise, Fetzie.

Say you go from 15% haste to 14% haste. You are 340 Expertise Rating below the cap. You manage to gain 340 Haste Rating from this, which gives you 0.8% additional haste. Let's say you had 40% haste, and now have 40.8% haste.

Over the course of a 9 minute fight, with 0% haste, you would press CS 120 times and J 80 times. Let's say you have an autoattack of 2.5 seconds, which means you would autoattack 216 times.

15% Exp/40% Haste:
You would press CS 168 times and J 112 times, for a total of 280 HoPo from CS/J. You would autoattack 302.4 times.

14% Exp/40.8% Haste:
You would press CS 168.96 times, 167.27 of them would hit. You would press J 112.64 times, for a total of 279.91 HoPo. You would autoattack 304.13 times, 301.09 of them would hit.

A 1 in 100 chance is not small. It's bound not to grant HoPo more than once during a single encounter. It's a loss in DPS and survivability, and might toss you off balance when you miss unexpectedly right when you needed that HoPo.

You do know the biggest reason tanks don't like Dodge and Parry? Because we can't rely on it! Why make your AM something you cannot rely on?

Play safe, play caps :)
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby L'ombra » Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:14 am

522 Doomed Crown of Lei Shen vs 535 Puncture Proof Greathelm? (assuming hit cap can be fixed)

I'm really clueless at how bad avoidance is.

Edit: For that matter I have 522 ret tier helm, too.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Thels » Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:35 pm

L'ombra wrote:522 Doomed Crown of Lei Shen vs 535 Puncture Proof Greathelm? (assuming hit cap can be fixed)

I'm really clueless at how bad avoidance is.

Edit: For that matter I have 522 ret tier helm, too.


With 13 ilvls, you can usually assume that the higher ilvl one is better. The Stamina and Armor that are on it are really useful.

Of course if it's a big difference, like several gemslots, then it might be worth to reconsider.



Sagara wrote:Yeah, I'm just slightly nervous (see avatar) and am trying to double check my own conclusions.


You were not alone. I had my first raid in a 25HC group (10/13) earlier tonight, and was pretty nervous myself. But it's still the same game, you still press the same buttons, and I didn't even find the bosses hitting that much harder. Your gear is a tiny bit better than mine, you should be fine.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Schroom » Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:30 am

I'm sitting at 47.23% meleehaste atm. Especially with the new Tier coming up I'm asking myself how to best decide what items I should take to balance out haste to 50% and stacking another stat (stam/mastery or crit for DPS)
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/z ... m/advanced

how do you folks intend on taking these decisions?
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Thels » Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:48 am

A lot of Haste comes from gemming. I don't think you can reach that 50% haste without gemming for it, so it won't be as much of an issue. If you happen to be over the Haste cap, just gem something else. :) This will also mean that all socket bonuses will become universally beneficial again.
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