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Politics (formerly Election 2012)

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Lieris » Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:29 am

Probably the biggest libertarian pressure group and think tank in the UK is the TPA (TaxPayers' Alliance) and this is the sort of tax reform they suggest: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... s-alliance

These are not good people. They want an even more unequal society and to further the interests of their wealthy backers.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Nooska » Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:20 am

That sounds like the Taxplan of the danish "Liberal Alliance" - the term used by satirist is The Saxo Bank Party (they are currently great detractors of showing who gave you how much money (proposal with a lower limit of 2,000 DKR (roughly 265€ / 350$US) for privvate citizens).
It all comes down to a view of "whats good for the richest person, is also okay for the poorest" (I'm surprised they are still talking about proportinal tax, rather than flat tax)
They only poll at around 4-6% but its hard to see a government different from the current without them required in the parliamentary majority (and thus with major influence)
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fridmarr » Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:16 am

The naivety I agree with, but I don't quite buy the protectionist logic. As far as protectionism goes, it's much, much better to have all the power concentrated among the few, and even better to abstract those few further and further away from the people so they are much easier to influence and much harder to hold accountable.

3: People in the top 1% tend to be more conservative than the rest of the population.
Polling data indicates that this is incorrect. They more often vote republican, but aren't more conservative.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Koatanga » Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:18 pm

Fridmarr wrote:The naivety I agree with, but I don't quite buy the protectionist logic. As far as protectionism goes, it's much, much better to have all the power concentrated among the few, and even better to abstract those few further and further away from the people so they are much easier to influence and much harder to hold accountable.

3: People in the top 1% tend to be more conservative than the rest of the population.
Polling data indicates that this is incorrect. They more often vote republican, but aren't more conservative.

I believe with respect to familial groups and roles, you'll find they are. By which I mean the men tend to control the money while the women look after the family. Conservative is probably the wrong term due to its political implications - let's go with "traditional".
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:54 am

http://www.aspentimes.com/news/7382102- ... iety-court
Scalia opened his talk with a reference to the Holocaust, which happened to occur in a society that was, at the time, “the most advanced country in the world.” One of the many mistakes that Germany made in the 1930s was that judges began to interpret the law in ways that reflected “the spirit of the age.” When judges accept this sort of moral authority, as Scalia claims they’re doing now in the U.S., they get themselves and society into trouble.

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby fuzzygeek » Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:03 pm

Scalia is a strict constructionist. This should come as no surprise.

In other news: http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe ... story.html

Internet service providers in Britain will be asked to automatically block access to pornography sites unless customers opt in, Prime Minister David Cameron announced Monday.

Cameron announced the move as part of measures to stop extreme sexual images he said were ‘‘corroding childhood.’’ Critics, however, said the measures were at best hard to implement and at worst a form of censorship.
...
Cameron said it was not entirely clear how the measures would work, but service providers should be able to come up with solutions.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:20 am

Yeah, the whole "OMG, think of the children!" thing has gotten a bit out of hand re: the internet over here. One of the problems with these web filters, of course, is not just that they're there, but that there's no way to make them perfect and avoid false positives. These things will block legitimate, non-pornographic sites, and people will just accept it because it's labelled as a family filter to protect children from porn.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Nooska » Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:14 am

And they think ISPs can filter these things? I am strictly not supposed to access amongst other sites the pirate bay - using open DNS circumvents all isp restrictions (and this restriction was an order of the court).
You need a great firewall to force restrictions - and thats quite a bit contrary to western philosophy on freedom of information.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:40 am

They're allowing the ISPs to decide how to filter things. Some are offering software for the user to install and control, most are implementing filters at the ISP level - in which case the likely scenario is that they'll be buying blacklists from existing filter companies, which is not an ideal situation. A few small ISPs are refusing to comply.

Several of the major ISPs already comply with complete blocking of certain piracy sites. Though you can still access them through certain IP addresses and mirrors, and for every one they block there's half a dozen that offer the same torrent link unblocked.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby fuzzygeek » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:04 am

Klaudandus wrote:http://www.aspentimes.com/news/7382102-113/scalia-judges-society-court
[i]Scalia opened his talk with a reference to the Holocaust,


This article is apparently missing some critical context. Specifically, he was commenting on a presentation named "Law, Justice, and the Holocaust: How the Courts Failed Germany" given by Dr. William F. Meinecke – United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, Washington, DC.

So, perhaps not exactly nefarious. Not that this will affect anyone's thinking who doesn't like him already.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby fuzzygeek » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:14 am

KysenMurrin wrote:people will just accept it because it's labelled as a family filter to protect children from porn.


I think in the long run it is less about protecting the children and more about getting a censorship platform in place.

I can't think of a single time when legislation intended "for the children" didn't have some kind of ulteriour motive.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:23 am

fuzzygeek wrote:
Klaudandus wrote:http://www.aspentimes.com/news/7382102-113/scalia-judges-society-court
[i]Scalia opened his talk with a reference to the Holocaust,


This article is apparently missing some critical context. Specifically, he was commenting on a presentation named "Law, Justice, and the Holocaust: How the Courts Failed Germany" given by Dr. William F. Meinecke – United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, Washington, DC.

So, perhaps not exactly nefarious. Not that this will affect anyone's thinking who doesn't like him already.


Gotta admit being wrong. All the information I had was the link I provided.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:00 pm

Well well well... Looks like Scalia and the SCOTUS were wrong. NC has risen up to the challenge and try to undermine voting rights.
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/0 ... ppression/
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:04 pm

and a follow up to David Cameron going all "won't you think of the children"
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 26991.html

Seems he has backed down a bit.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:15 pm

Doesn't sound like backing down, it sounds like he has no clear idea of what he wants from this thing and has just been assuming the ISPs would work it out for him.
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