95% uptime on SoTR... how ?

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95% uptime on SoTR... how ?

Postby Rorschach » Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:09 pm

Hi

I was looking at some WoL and saw this prot pala with 95.2% uptime on SoTR and got the buff only 1 time ?!

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-cr7xv ... 094&e=6240

Like he kept it up for the whole fight ?

He's at 16k4 haste.

How is that possible ? T15 4pc + Unbreakable Spirit and an insane amount of damage maybe ?
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Re: 95% uptime on SoTR... how ?

Postby Schroom » Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:17 am

Rorschach wrote:How is that possible ? T15 4pc + Unbreakable Spirit and an insane amount of damage maybe ?


yup, his 4 piece gave him 53 HoPo. also chained this quite well. he startet with DP when he had the biggest damage inc. as soon as it dropped of he used HA during Timewarp, thena gain he used DP. Now he had a fair stack of SOTR already. DP ed again and so on.

its quite risky at the start and you can only pull it of if you have nice external CD usage. He first used his AD, then got Life Cocoon and just before it dropped of he got painsup, all during his first DP.

only then he continued with HA.

looks like he really tried to pull off 100% SoTR uptime. ebcause it doesn't really seems logical in terms of Raid strat. (having 2 private healers on one of 3 tanks...)

also he didn't used GoAK and I don't know why... :(
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Re: 95% uptime on SoTR... how ?

Postby Thels » Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:29 am

Schroom wrote:also he didn't used GoAK and I don't know why... :(


Can you find a WoL entry where the prot paladin DID use GoAK?

There's a bug with GoAK that it doesn't log properly. RSA for example doesn't announce GoAK for prot paladins, because it's not being registered.
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Re: 95% uptime on SoTR... how ?

Postby Schroom » Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:08 am

ah ok didn't know that :) thanks. I announce with /s macros and don't use RSA.
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Re: 95% uptime on SoTR... how ?

Postby Promdates » Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:27 am

I've had 87% on 25H Animus, but I was using Divine Purpose. Going to use Holy Avenger next time. But yeah, the 4P bonus is broken as hell. I'm honestly surprised at the number of people who don't use it because "someone" said it wasn't that good.
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Re: 95% uptime on SoTR... how ?

Postby Fetzie » Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:54 am

I got it last night, finally. After weeks of no conqueror drops :/
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Re: 95% uptime on SoTR... how ?

Postby Fenrìr » Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:56 am

I never praticularly cared for it simply because I did not get the full benefit of it. There's very few fights that I tank in a situation that would increase the 4p T15 bonus over a haste. My monk tank is pretty much dedicated to tank all the things, which annoys me but that's another thing.
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Re: 95% uptime on SoTR... how ?

Postby Promdates » Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:03 am

Even if you only gain 1-2 holy power from it per minute, it's still better than not using it. Even better than getting the extra 1-2k haste rating.
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Re: 95% uptime on SoTR... how ?

Postby Fenrìr » Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:20 pm

I'd like to see the math behind that, personally. I don't see how 1-2 holy power is going to blow 1-2k haste rating out of the water to make it substationally better. Especially at this point. However, if we were talking about 5.4 in which the avoidance may play a factor, then I can see your point as a valid argument.


I'm not saying that the 4p doesn't have it's advantages in situations or raid comps or if you're the MT vs OT, but it's just not for me. Sure, I could carry multiple tank sets and swap them out on a per fight basis. I'm over that. I did that for TBC and parts of Wrath and it was overly f'ing annoying to constantly think in my head if I had all the pieces for a progression fight. I like having 1 tank set and 1 dps set even if they may have overlapping gear (it's not 1 dps set, then 1 tank set for this boss fight, then another for this boss fight, then a mix of the two for another boss fight, then a completely different set for this boss fight just to cheese this 1 mechanic.)
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Re: 95% uptime on SoTR... how ?

Postby Thels » Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:07 am

I'm still not sold on the 4 piece, and the new updates to SimulationCraft didn't really help either.

Without the 4 piece, I have a TMI of 4546. That's with 2 tier pieces (shoulders and gloves), because I don't really have much better for those slots. It's also without using DP.

If I replace my chest and my legs with tier pieces, and press DP on CD, my TMI rises to 5094. Given, my offspec pieces are a little higher ilvl, but that applies to more people, not?

Without 4 piece, no DP: http://thels.nl/zoelin01.html
With 4 piece, DP on CD: http://thels.nl/zoelin04.html
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Re: 95% uptime on SoTR... how ?

Postby Schroom » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:09 am

I'm even at 1337 TMI (yep leet xD for HM bosses)without any set bonus...
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Re: 95% uptime on SoTR... how ?

Postby Fetzie » Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:44 am

Hmm, with Divine Purpose I have a 3300 TMI, with Holy Avenger I have a 1800 TMI against a T15H patchwerk.

How do you export it like that, Thels?
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Re: 95% uptime on SoTR... how ?

Postby Thels » Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:58 pm

Fetzie wrote:Hmm, with Divine Purpose I have a 3300 TMI, with Holy Avenger I have a 1800 TMI against a T15H patchwerk.

How do you export it like that, Thels?


There's a file called "simc_report.html" in your SimC folder, which contains the results of your latest Simulation. Just rename that and upload it somewhere. :)
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Re: 95% uptime on SoTR... how ?

Postby Schroom » Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:04 pm

ok, we don't have a simc / TMI thread (yet?) so I jsut post here, as the discussion goes towards hit.

after I got a new trinket today I run my character through simc again.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/387 ... 07-13.html

I chose 50000 Iterations, patchwerk Raidboss T15H with elite playerskill.

It got me 870.58 TMI that ist pretty damn low. can this be correct?

also the normalized scalefactors but stamina to 0.00

and gave my rankings the following priority: Mastery ~= Haste > Hit > Str ~= Dodge > Parry > Exp > Armor > Sta ~= Crit

it seems damn odd...
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Re: 95% uptime on SoTR... how ?

Postby Paoanii » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:05 pm

Schroom wrote:ok, we don't have a simc / TMI thread (yet?) so I jsut post here, as the discussion goes towards hit.

after I got a new trinket today I run my character through simc again.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/387 ... 07-13.html

I chose 50000 Iterations, patchwerk Raidboss T15H with elite playerskill.

It got me 870.58 TMI that ist pretty damn low. can this be correct?

also the normalized scalefactors but stamina to 0.00

and gave my rankings the following priority: Mastery ~= Haste > Hit > Str ~= Dodge > Parry > Exp > Armor > Sta ~= Crit

it seems damn odd...


You were scaling based on Damage Taken per Second and not TMI, so it makes sense to see a value of 0 for stamina.

On the note of TMI, however, I have been getting similar numbers against the t15H boss and can only blame it on being near BiS gear.
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Re: 95% uptime on SoTR... how ?

Postby Schroom » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:22 pm

*doooh* allthough i was sure I selected TMI... maybe it was to late yesterday ^^

I simed again. now my TMI got higher at a bit > 1300 again.

Code: Select all
              Str    Sta   AP     Exp     Hit      Crit   Haste Mastery   Armor   Dodge   Parry   
Normalized   1.00   2.33   0.22   20.56   25.21   -0.04   2.35   0.94      1.29    0.57   0.60


which results in Hit > Exp > Haste ~= Sta > Armor > Str ~= Mastery > Parry ~= Dodge ~= AP > Crit

still interesting that haste slightly overtakes stamina. And mastery falls so far behind, even beyond strength.

my current haste level is a bit > 46% btw.
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Re: 95% uptime on SoTR... how ?

Postby Sagara » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:44 pm

I remember seeing a bit of a discussion on that, the big trouble with Mastery is that Simcraft blows ShotR whenever it hits 5 HoPo. This is all well and good, except that Mastery realises its potential when ShotR is used to counteract and predict big spikes.

So the sim is currently "wasting" a bit of its potential with ShotR during weak damage intake periods. I don't think it'd jump over Haste or Stam, but it'd probably overcome strenght in most situations.
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Re: 95% uptime on SoTR... how ?

Postby Thels » Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:50 am

Schroom wrote:I simed again. now my TMI got higher at a bit > 1300 again.


If all you changed are the scaling factors, then TMI should remain the same, and not change that much.

Can you post the new results in html as well, to see what's different?
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Re: 95% uptime on SoTR... how ?

Postby Schroom » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:06 am

Thels wrote:Can you post the new results in html as well, to see what's different?


here it is :) https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/38739176/simc_report_Schroom_25-07-2013.html
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Re: 95% uptime on SoTR... how ?

Postby Thels » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:58 pm

Same gear.
Same glyphs.
Same talents.
Same enemy.
Same simulation settings.

I wonder why the results differ so much...
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Re: 95% uptime on SoTR... how ?

Postby Schroom » Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:42 am

Thels wrote:I wonder why the results differ so much...


me too. that's why I asked.

I didn't even log in between those sims.
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Re: 95% uptime on SoTR... how ?

Postby Fetzie » Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:12 am

What is the degree of confidence for a 50,000 iteration simulation?
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Re: 95% uptime on SoTR... how ?

Postby Schroom » Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:54 am

The more iterations. The better the accuracy. Well at least it should be.
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Re: 95% uptime on SoTR... how ?

Postby theckhd » Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:19 pm

Schroom wrote:ok, we don't have a simc / TMI thread (yet?) so I jsut post here, as the discussion goes towards hit.

I was going to make one for 5.4, but we can make a consolidated Simcraft thread for the interim since we don't know how soon that's coming.
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Re: 95% uptime on SoTR... how ?

Postby theckhd » Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:42 pm

As to why there's a discrepancy:

1st run:
Code: Select all
Resource Usage          Type    Count   Total           Average RPE    APR
avengers_shield         Mana    50.6    212674.8        4200.0  4200.0  81.3
consecration            Mana    28.8    120953.4        4200.0  4200.0  59.6
crusader_strike         Mana    143.1   257640.5        1800.0  1800.0  36.5
hammer_of_wrath         Mana    13.8    24817.0         1800.0  1800.0  163.6
holy_wrath              Mana    45.4    136216.2        3000.0  3000.0  103.4
judgment                Mana    92.0    275929.6        3000.0  3000.0  71.1
shield_of_the_righteous HP      117.9   353.8            3.0     3.0     77158.0



2nd run:
Code: Select all
Resource Usage    Type    Count   Total        Average    RPE    APR
avengers_shield         Mana    47.7    200522.1     4200.0     4200.0    81.2
consecration            Mana    30.5    128103.4     4200.0     4200.0    59.3
crusader_strike         Mana    141.4    254574.2     1800.0     1800.0    36.5
hammer_of_wrath         Mana    12.5    22451.3      1800.0     1800.0    163.4
holy_wrath              Mana    47.3    142012.9     3000.0     3000.0    103.2
judgment                Mana    83.2    249465.4     3000.0     3000.0    71.2
shield_of_the_righteous HP      112.3    336.9           3.0        3.0    77818.4


More Judgment & AS casts (more GC procs), thus more SotRs. Not sure why there's so many more J casts though, to be honest. I'd have to look more carefully at the reports. Best guess is some weird combination of lucky procs and/or AS/J munching.
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