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Politics (formerly Election 2012)

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fivelives » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:36 pm

If my memory is correct, the difference between Stand Your Ground and Castle Law is that Castle Law is only applicable in or on your own property (or property that you're leasing)?

If that is indeed the case, I would be a firm advocate for all Stand Your Ground states to switch to Castle Law, just to prevent shit like the Zimmerman/Martin shit from happening. Shoot someone in public and you should damned well go to jail, for public endangerment if nothing else - odds are that opening fire at someone in a situation where your hands are shaking due to an adrenaline rush, you're going to miss. And bullets don't just magically stop at the distance they should have hit what you were nominally aiming at.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:40 pm

Lieris wrote:Trayvon tried to avoid confrontation, his instinct was flight. Zimmerman kept stalking him, he was always looking for an altercation.


That's what I'm in part referring too. I think I'd have switched from Flight to Fight if I was getting harassed as well.



And now for the other side of the coin...
Ted 'I Poop my pants to avoid the draft' Nugent eloquently and calmly gives his opinion on the Zimmerman/Martin case: http://rare.us/story/nugent-zimmerman-v ... te=Unknown

PS. Yeah, it's as racist as you'd expect.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Lieris » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:44 pm

Fivelives wrote:If that is indeed the case, I would be a firm advocate for all Stand Your Ground states to switch to Castle Law, just to prevent shit like the Zimmerman/Martin shit from happening. Shoot someone in public and you should damned well go to jail, for public endangerment if nothing else - odds are that opening fire at someone in a situation where your hands are shaking due to an adrenaline rush, you're going to miss. And bullets don't just magically stop at the distance they should have hit what you were nominally aiming at.


The idea of civilians carrying firearms in public and playing policeman is simultaneously terrifying and insane to me (and nearly all Europeans for that matter).

Klaudandus wrote:And now for the other side of the coin...
Ted 'I Poop my pants to avoid the draft' Nugent eloquently and calmly gives his opinion on the Zimmerman/Martin case: http://rare.us/story/nugent-zimmerman-v ... te=Unknown

PS. Yeah, it's as racist as you'd expect.


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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:52 pm

Fivelives wrote:If my memory is correct, the difference between Stand Your Ground and Castle Law is that Castle Law is only applicable in or on your own property (or property that you're leasing)?


Pretty much. Several years ago, a local case had a guy shooting, and killing, a teenager after he and his friend broke into his house. There was a big stink about it but was acquitted in the end.

The kid had a record, the kid had a weapon (a knife) and had burglarized that house in the past.

The shooting happened inside his house.

That said, also in Texas, there was another case where a guy shot and killed another burglar but was declared guilty. The difference was that the shooting started inside the house, and the burglar was wounded, but fled. The owner chased after him and fired a shot that fatally wounded the burglar in the middle of the street after he had already left the property -- thus castle law not applying.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby fuzzygeek » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:02 pm

Lieris wrote:Zimmerman is a racist and a murderer and his supporters are cut from the same cloth as he is.


/facepalm

This is such a caricature of sloppy thinking I have a hard time believing it's not satire.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Lieris » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:23 pm

fuzzygeek wrote:
Lieris wrote:Zimmerman is a racist and a murderer and his supporters are cut from the same cloth as he is.


/facepalm

This is such a caricature of sloppy thinking I have a hard time believing it's not satire.


Facepalm yourself.

A murderer has a significant number of cheerleaders and apologists who shamelessly victim blame a teenager for his own murder and smear him even post-trial: That is twisted and there is undoubtedly a racial element to it.

Whether you think it was manslaughter or murder, that's another debate but anyone who agrees with the acquittal for shooting dead an unarmed teenager is probably a racist and I am more than comfortable with that assumption. Ta.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby aureon » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:26 pm

Lieris wrote:Zimmerman is a racist and a murderer and his supporters are cut from the same cloth as he is. It's a joke that this pile of human excrement walks free and with the murder weapon. This is a self-appointed sherif with a criminal record who stalked then murdered an unarmed teenager and yet he has cheerleaders who are continuing to vilify Trayvon and blame him for his own murder. Shameless and gross.

This is a good opinion piece IMO: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... ys-verdict


Even if i wholeheartily agree with you, the law is the law.

You do not burn people on the electric chair on pure suspects. There's not enough proof that he did not comply with Florida's retarded law.

The justice system has done all it should have done, the blame is on the legislative system.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby fuzzygeek » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:35 pm

Lieris wrote:Whether you think it was manslaughter or murder, that's another debate but anyone who agrees with the acquittal for shooting dead an unarmed teenager is probably a racist and I am more than comfortable with that assumption. Ta.


It always makes me sad to find people so willing to make assumptions -- and to be more than comfortable with assumptions -- about other people. Isn't that behaviour exactly what is so bad about racism?
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:47 pm

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Pfife » Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:07 pm

Hold on to your butts, I'm going to try and change gears.

OMG WE CAN'T HOLD PHARMACEUTICALS ACCOUNTABLE ANYMORE!

http://www.whiteoutpress.com/articles/q32013/supreme-court-rules-drug-companies-exempt-from-lawsuits/
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Koatanga » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:08 pm

Pfife wrote:Hold on to your butts, I'm going to try and change gears.

OMG WE CAN'T HOLD PHARMACEUTICALS ACCOUNTABLE ANYMORE!

http://www.whiteoutpress.com/articles/q32013/supreme-court-rules-drug-companies-exempt-from-lawsuits/


In some ways I can see their point. In the US drug patents are good for 20 years. That means the drug underwent duly diligent scrutiny for FDA approval and had been on the market for 20 years before the generic was produced. During that time, it is reasonable to conclude that any possible side-effect would most likely have come up. In this particular case, it didn't.

I can understand suing for negligence, but it's just not reasonable to test every conceivable human DNA combination and its interaction with a drug prior to approval. There's no negligence producing a drug that has been on the market for 20 years if it is produced exactly the same way as the original, so there should be no liability. If they produced it wrong, or altered the formula from the original, then there's room for liability, but when one person in millions has a bad reaction to a tried-and-true drug, that's just unfortunate.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:14 pm

Koatanga wrote:
Pfife wrote:Hold on to your butts, I'm going to try and change gears.

OMG WE CAN'T HOLD PHARMACEUTICALS ACCOUNTABLE ANYMORE!

http://www.whiteoutpress.com/articles/q32013/supreme-court-rules-drug-companies-exempt-from-lawsuits/


In some ways I can see their point. In the US drug patents are good for 20 years. That means the drug underwent duly diligent scrutiny for FDA approval and had been on the market for 20 years before the generic was produced. During that time, it is reasonable to conclude that any possible side-effect would most likely have come up. In this particular case, it didn't.

I can understand suing for negligence, but it's just not reasonable to test every conceivable human DNA combination and its interaction with a drug prior to approval. There's no negligence producing a drug that has been on the market for 20 years if it is produced exactly the same way as the original, so there should be no liability. If they produced it wrong, or altered the formula from the original, then there's room for liability, but when one person in millions has a bad reaction to a tried-and-true drug, that's just unfortunate.


Agreed.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Jabari » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:14 am

Going to take Klaud's advice, I think. There's no point in trying to debate when one side won't do it honestly.

Fridmarr wrote:
Lieris wrote:Zimmerman is a racist and a murderer <snip>

<snip>
So out of curiosity, if Zimmerman was returning to his truck, and was jumped by Martin, does that change your opinion?

Lieris: You have responded to THREE different posts after Fridmarr asked this, and yet you somehow managed to completely miss this one. Curious, that.

Klaudandus wrote:But if you ever link me to NRO or Freepers... I will retaliate. >=P

Fair enough, so long as someone gets to do the same after you link to HuffPo or Salon. ;)

(Actually, NRO does have a couple of good columnists - Kevin Williamson, Veronique de Rugy, and Mark Steyn. They're pretty terrible other than those three, though.)

I would strongly recommend that you add the following two sites to your daily reading list:
http://market-ticker.org/ (Karl Denninger's Market Ticker - mostly financial stuff, but that's extremely important right now and he touches on politics from time to time)

http://ace.mu.nu/ (Ace of Spades HQ)

Now I'm not saying that you have to agree with everything (or even most things) written there. You probably won't. It may even infuriate you. However, these are intelligent people writing - I would caution you about dismissing them out-of-hand. Read, fully, for comprehension, then do some critical thinking of your own instead of just jumping to your "programmed" response - they call it "TV Programming" for a reason, you know!

(Note that neither site is a "bastion of Republicanism". They both hammer on Rs just as much as Ds.)

They will also likely expose you to a number of stories that are being hidden from you by the mainstream media.


As far as everything else goes Politics-wise: It's clear that we have two different countries occupying the territory known as the "United States". The divisions keep getting bigger and more acrimonious. I can only hope that it is resolved peacefully (via secession) rather than with blood, but I fear that it won't be.

"All politics in this country is now just dress rehearsal for civil war." -- Billy Beck
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:47 pm

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Lieris » Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:29 pm

Jabari wrote:Lieris: You have responded to THREE different posts after Fridmarr asked this, and yet you somehow managed to completely miss this one. Curious, that.


Not really, I just don't see the point in a drawn out argument (something I don't have the time for) with someone I know I will never see eye to eye with over the reliability of Zimmerman's testimony.

Given that you are a far right crazy who is not so subtly licking his lips at the thought of a civil war (something which will not happen outside the realm of Tea Party wet dreams) I am not going to argue with you either.

Here's some cartoon level evil happening on my shores: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 18029.html

Loathsome.
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