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[10H] Twin Consorts

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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Rokh » Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:11 pm

Darielle wrote:
If you have a dps start the fight by pulling fire, she is perma ago on that dps no matter what you do during the dark phase.
So we just have that dps stand near where the most shadow adds are so that she will spawn and run to him instantly. we use a mage so we can them blink to another group of adds, pretty much clears them out ever tears.


Note: Suen has a normal threat table. She will pop up on the person who is highest threat, and will continue to follow that person only so long as they remain highest threat, and continues to be tauntable etc.

This means that if you pull with a Hunter autoshooting, he WILL be overtaken by the Priest running dots through while she's up. What you're probably noticing is merely that the person you have who does the pull (the Mage) is also coincidentally the person who does most damage to Suen.

This also means that it's REALLY easy for tanks to rip threat off, especially since healing threat also counts.


This is untrue. We have used this method with both a mage and a boomkin (with the cat blink) every time.

If someone hits Suen to start the fight they will have 100% threat no matter what untill the start of day. Yes taunt does work, but after the taunt buff wears off she will return to the player that started the pull.

We have all dps targeting her during tears and no one pulls off our mage/boomkin who isnt even dpsing, they are running in a circle around the outside of the room.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Darielle » Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:09 pm

This is untrue. We have used this method with both a mage and a boomkin (with the cat blink) every time.

If someone hits Suen to start the fight they will have 100% threat no matter what untill the start of day. Yes taunt does work, but after the taunt buff wears off she will return to the player that started the pull.

We have all dps targeting her during tears and no one pulls off our mage/boomkin who isnt even dpsing, they are running in a circle around the outside of the room.


If this were in any way true, than there is no possibility for us on progression to have had our Shadow Priest dot Suen on the pull and for me to taunt over and maintain threat on Suen after (more Heart-Cat deeps)
It would also have made it impossible for me to rip off Psiven on the pulls where she popped up on him because he had the most threat, because Suen would have been wanting to play with him "mo matter what until the start of day".
It would also have made it impossible for her to pop on Psiven, since his only threat on her was healing threat and possibly bouncing AS's or Holy Prism anyway.
It would have been even more impossible for our Holy Paladin, also on progression, to do the revealing, taunting off said Shadow Priest and maintaining threat with healing aggro and RF after.

I'm sure your Mage and Boomkin aren't silly enough to do no dps, they're almost definitely doing instant casts or movement damage, using Ice Floes, Scorch, Starsurge procs, casting on her after Blinking etc.

Given that it's an extremely reasonable scenario to reconcile the two by assuming competence and their ability to do a ton of damage to Suen, it seems entirely unrealistic to assume a set of contradictory conditions and suggest incompetence on their part by suggesting that they actually don't dps.
Last edited by Darielle on Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Belloc » Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:48 pm

Rokh wrote:
Darielle wrote:
If you have a dps start the fight by pulling fire, she is perma ago on that dps no matter what you do during the dark phase.
So we just have that dps stand near where the most shadow adds are so that she will spawn and run to him instantly. we use a mage so we can them blink to another group of adds, pretty much clears them out ever tears.


Note: Suen has a normal threat table. She will pop up on the person who is highest threat, and will continue to follow that person only so long as they remain highest threat, and continues to be tauntable etc.

This means that if you pull with a Hunter autoshooting, he WILL be overtaken by the Priest running dots through while she's up. What you're probably noticing is merely that the person you have who does the pull (the Mage) is also coincidentally the person who does most damage to Suen.

This also means that it's REALLY easy for tanks to rip threat off, especially since healing threat also counts.


This is untrue. We have used this method with both a mage and a boomkin (with the cat blink) every time.

If someone hits Suen to start the fight they will have 100% threat no matter what untill the start of day. Yes taunt does work, but after the taunt buff wears off she will return to the player that started the pull.

We have all dps targeting her during tears and no one pulls off our mage/boomkin who isnt even dpsing, they are running in a circle around the outside of the room.

It sounds to me like your tank isn't generating threat on Suen when she's up, because your description of this effect is inconsistent with my experience and many others'.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Rokh » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:50 pm

I said if you wish to change her target taunt works... and you use examples where you taunted... and running and blinking to clear 100% of all ghosts = low dps, but for the sake of the example I said no dps.. big deal.

My guess is you are starting the fight on darky and you dont pull on suen, I believe she just time stamps her threat when she vanishes for the 1st time and if no one touches her on the pull then everyone is even....

Have been killing it this way for months, no reason to lie... her threat does not leave the player that pulls her unless you choose to taunt for some reason i dont see why though.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Darielle » Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:26 am

I said if you wish to change her target taunt works... and you use examples where you taunted


Not quite. There are also examples of healing threat from the tank pulling her off people if they aren't touching her. I also don't actually taunt, and if I generate no threat, then she will be ripped off me (which has happened).

That is exactly how the threat mechanic works on who Suen will pop and chase. Assuming you have Omen, you can see threat on her pretty clearly, and it does nothing special. I'd love to see a video or some kind of evidence where you have other people above your Mage or Boomkin on threat (by 130% of course) and Suen will just makes love to him while other people wail on her. Or for them to do one cast on her on the pull and ignore her the entire time and she just Spins on them. Because that's the mechanic you're suggesting happens, and it goes counter to every experience other people have had.

Like I said, it's extremely reasonable to reconcile that your Mage or Boomkin are just doing good damage and being competent.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Rokh » Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:43 pm

Not to switch subjects... but has anyone had an issue with the commets vanishing?

Took us almost 2 hours this week to down this boss because our commets would land, then just poof gone at 85%hp or more.

We could not figure out why, at first we thought it was if the commet targeted the person drawing maybe when they went down it vanished, but we tried an attempt with no drawing and they still vanished at 80% hp... we finaly just got lucky and everything worked as normal on an attempt.


Does anyone know what causes this?
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Sagara » Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:37 pm

ISn't that Suen's Light of Day targeting someone close by a comet? It kills it instantly.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Schroom » Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:54 pm

Sagara wrote:ISn't that Suen's Light of Day targeting someone close by a comet? It kills it instantly.



exactly. Comets disappearing, means someone stood close to the comet.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Rokh » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:20 am

derp
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Magnilda » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:42 am

Does the light of day ability target tanks? When I'm tanking them can I still stand on the blue patch to get the damage reduction?
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Darielle » Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:00 am

It can definitely hit tank specced characters, and I THINK I've seen it target the current tank, but I can't be 100% sure.
It doesn't line up with Fan often from my experience, so using the shadows if you need to is fine. But it's completely unnecessary unless you're in some kind of tank death scenario, because cooldowns are not sparse.

[00:00:32.047] Suen casts Fan of Flames on Slashlove
[00:00:42.924] Suen Light of Day Slashlove 48905 (A: 95528)
[00:00:42.924] Suen Light of Day Psiven 101980 (A: 63050)
[00:00:46.504] Suen casts Fan of Flames on Slashlove
[00:00:54.980] Suen Light of Day Buiden 125270
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby daishan » Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:38 am

Darielle wrote:It can definitely hit tank specced characters, and I THINK I've seen it target the current tank, but I can't be 100% sure.


Yep I've had it target me several times while I've been the active tank.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Schroom » Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:10 pm

yep. I usually position the Boss between the comet and myself, so I have largely enough range. Also knowing the amount of stacks (I use a weak aura) is really helpful here, because, if he got no stacks, you can save the comet. This can spare up to 2-3 comets a fight. making it a lot easier, and giving a certain tolerance for fails.

Also both bosses hit like a Pussy, you shouldn't really need standing in the dark stuff. or do you mean while she casts nuclear inferno? here of course you hide with your raid behind a comet.

we handle it in the way that at 1 second remaining we spread out immediately. (also to avoid being knocked back) it this is what you mean.

one thing tho I saw in a lot of killvideos. why does the second tank have to taunt when the maintank gets the Beast?


we never really needed a 2nd tank for phase one. I use the Boss as vengeance generator so I can kill my beat even faster. And SoI is more than enough heal to keep you up, even with a couple of adds on your bud.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Fenrìr » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:30 am

Well, the concept is that healers get a nasty stacking debuff for any direct healing done to the Beast tank.
Image
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Sagara » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:35 am

Fenrìr wrote:Well, the concept is that healers get a nasty stacking debuff for any direct healing done to the Beast tank.


We're Paladins! Healing is for wussies like Warriors! :lol:

Although, seriously, I've been tanking Lu'lin+Beast on 10H without much of a hiccup - HA on the first, WoG + AD for the second, and WoG + LoH should do the trick on the third.
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