Speeding up runs

Attumen, Moroes, Maiden, Opera, Curator, Illhoof, Aran, Netherspite, Chess, Prince, Nightbane

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Speeding up runs

Postby rodos » Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:16 pm

I'm looking for tips on how my Kara group can speed up our runs.

We managed to get our first Prince kill last weekend after not too much trouble. I think we'll be able to put him on "farm" status fairly soon. Aran is still a pain - things seem to randomly go wrong often. We've yet to give a serious try to either of the dragons, and will probably need to spend some time learning those fights (which is one reason I think we need to go faster - to give us the time we need).

Currently it takes us two nights to clear, usually 3-4 hours on the first night, and about 3 on the second. We still kill Attumen and Maiden because there are drops people want, and everyone likes badges. One of the main problems is that we usually can't get Aran down before people get tired and start making mistakes. This often means a double clear of that horrid trash after the Curator. The other thing we do is use a lot of CC - up to 3 shackles and a trap some times.

Raid composition is Bear MT, Me OT, 2 priest healers, 2 mages, 1 hunter, 1 rogue, 1 spriest and 1 guy who switches lock/dps-shammy based on the fight (e.g. lock for Illhoof). This setup is pretty much non-negotiable.

What's going to make the biggest difference? Less CC? More structured bio break times? Leaving Attumen and Maiden for day 2? Or something else?
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Postby knaughty » Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:29 pm

As soon as your gear allows, switch roles with the feral, and let him DPS as much as possible.

Have your cloth wearers finish the 2/2 and 3/3 epic tailoring craftables for their spec.

DPS consumables.

Gear up.

After Opera, run out then take the back door, it's faster than clearing the box seats.

Chain pull based on healer mana.

[hr]

Of course... the best thing you could do for group balance is switch your healing team to "tree+pally". Getting a 2nd blessing up in a 10-man makes a decent difference, and while 2 renews is just barely enough HoTs, once you switch a pally in for the 2nd priest, the first one doesn't have enough HoTs solo and you need a druid.

But if your group's non-negotiable, and your two priests are good enough to get "Prince dead", you can ignore it.

Don't bother with Nightbane until you're geared enough to tank both phases with the druid being DPS non-stop. He's a gear check, you can tank him once 90% of your gear is purple.

Netherspite is doable with your group makeup so long as the warlock comes, and is mostly a co-ordination rather than gear check.

[hr]

If you can kill Prince, you can do the first couple of bosses in Zul'Aman.... but you'll need a 3rd healer, and it probably should be a druid/shaman.
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Postby Wakeman » Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:17 pm

More structured bio break times for sure!

j/k

Actually pretty much what knaughty had mentioned.

I would also recommend go straight to Moroes => Opera => Curator => Aran, if killing Aran is a problem because everyone were tired, then come back to Maiden and Attumen afterward. You need most of the people concentrated when attempting Aran, whereas you can be half asleep when double tanking Attumen and his horse. :P

Besides, you know Aran don't need tank usually, do you? You should wear your healing set and druid dps set for this fight.

Netherspite should be fine with your group. Druid and you on the red beam, lock and spriest on blue, rogue and druid on green.

Though you don't have a warrior tank, three priests and a shammy are more than enough to handle NB's fear, so should be doable once you or your druid tank have enough health. If the druid is going to tank NB, you can help AOE tank skeletons.

BTW, you give BoSalv to dps except hunter and BoWisdom to healers, right?
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Postby rodos » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:28 pm

the best thing you could do for group balance is switch your healing team to "tree+pally"

Our guild's second Kara group have this setup (or did until the pally /gquit). I tanked Illhoof with them over Christmas and they do rock pretty hard. That day the group had 2 soulstones, 3 battle res and 1 ankh, which is pretty sick for working on progression fights.

I would also recommend go straight to Moroes => Opera => Curator => Aran

I was thinking this, yes. The other two can go down later, or on day 2.

Besides, you know Aran don't need tank usually, do you? You should wear your healing set and druid dps set for this fight.

This is what we do. I have a +1200 heal/100 mp5/10k mana set that I put on for Maiden, Curator, Aran and Prince. Being the only plate wearer in the raid means I get all the pally tanking and healing drops (although I steal the shammy stuff too for the mp5 :twisted:)

BTW, you give BoSalv to dps except hunter and BoWisdom to healers, right?

Pretty much. I used to Salv the hunter before I realised I don't need to, and sometimes I get lazy and Salv all the priests. I can tighten up my act there.
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Postby Worldie » Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:01 pm

Speed run means:

Pull -> AoE -> Pull -> AoE -> Pull -> AoE -> Pull -> AoE -> Pull -> AoE -> Pull -> AoE -> Pull -> AoE -> rest -> Boss -> Pull -> AoE -> etc


2 hours per kara, i actually usually get out of there with 50-60g more than i entered with.

Salv everything, wisdom healer, and go ahead.
Melee demolition partyes are also good for this. Bring a shadow priest if you want to do even quicker.
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Postby Minn » Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:12 am

My guild recently made the switch from 2 to 1 day KZ clears. Two things I'd recommend are chain pulling and quick loot distribution. You don't need everyone at full mana for every trash pull. Clearing to Attumen, for example, I usually use my stun when the last mob is around 40% life, walk over and pull the next group. If you're running with an offtank, whoever isn't tanking the last mob can go on to the next one. AE whenever you can, it is far more mana-efficient for casters, and their dps skyrockets.

As far as loot goes, we let everyone see the loot, then spend about 10 seconds per piece going through our bid/roll process. We used to spend a good 5-10 minutes talking, encouraging other people to take stuff, hemming and hawing, but now we leave it up to each raidmember to know what's on their wishlist.

We usually clear Attumen, Moroes, Maiden then Opera before taking a break. 5-15m to take care of business, meet at the back entrance for Nightbane and up.
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Postby ulushnar » Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:09 am

Back when we were clearing Kara over two nights, the first night was usually: Attumen > Moroes > Opera > Curator > Aran > Chess > Prince (if we have time) on the first night with Maiden, Nightbane, Illhoof, Netherspite and Prince (if alive) on the second night. We can currently clear it in 3 hours, but that's with an overgeared group farming badges.

Speed clearing's all about gear and DPS output. Make sure your DPS is all flasked and have the best possible gear going in. I'd personally reccomend the Druid going Kitty and you MTing on single-tank stuff since Feral is currently the only tanking spec that does respectable DPS. If your healers are up to it, try and multi-tank rather than CC.

Don't forget to throw in a 5-min break every so often. It may be a speed bump, but it's better to have regular breaks than have people taking bios whenever it suits them. Time the breaks around the times you need to have the Shammy/Lock to switch so you can limit the disruption it causes.
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Postby Lore » Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:16 am

Make sure people aren't regularly going AFK for trash either. The faster you kill trash, the faster you kill bosses. 1 DPS going AFK for trash makes a big difference, especially in a 5-man.
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Postby Antharas » Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:34 am

Lore wrote:Make sure people aren't regularly going AFK for trash either. The faster you kill trash, the faster you kill bosses. 1 DPS going AFK for trash makes a big difference, especially in a 5-man.


kara is a 10 man...

speed clears as ppl have said are all about gear. and pally tanks are pretty badass for speed clears in kara. just get ur gear up so your able to MT prince w/o any issues and ull be fine to tank kara. dont cc anything really, cept for maybe a banish here and there (my guild went from using 3 priests for CC to now 0 priests and we just run through it all).

the biggest issue i found for speeding up the process is explaining boss fights. if you wanna go fast, take ppl you have played w/ b4 and know their shit, so you can tear through it all w/o any issue and not spending 5-10 min per boss explaining it all.

only tips i can give on shade would be to make sure ur counterspelling everything cept the arc bolts. ur rogue should be kicking everytime its up, same w/ ur mages CS. you should put on healing gear deffinatly. My guild is a little spoiled for this fight. we usually run w/ 3 pallies (this past week was 2 prot pallys, 1 holy pally). so for shade everyone gets kings, might/wisdom, and light. and w/ 3 pallys healing ppl rarely go down at all (then we also have a resto shaman healing lol). if your really having trouble w/ this fight id sugest bringing 2 rogues. kick is 8sec CD if i remember right, basicly meaning that a rogue can stop spells 3x more often than a mage, its pretty helpful haha.

only last thing i could recommend is up ur DPS by a ton. this will come w/ gear tho, continueing to clear kara over and over will help u with that. also badge rewards are a big help. when we do kara we usually clear in 4-5 hours w/ very few deaths, maybe 1-3 wipes depending on weird stuff that could happen. our top DPSers are approaching 1000 DPS, just to give u an idea of how fast you can go depending on dps (we use ele shaman, mage, 2x rogue, hunter, and lock).
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Postby Wakeman » Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:19 am

Antharas wrote:kara is a 10 man...


I believe Lore and his T6 geared guildmates can 5 man kara. ;)
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Postby Dazhbog » Sat Jan 19, 2008 11:03 pm

Other then what's been said, and because I took notes from yesterday's Kara run (which went poorly >< )

Try to have one person doing the "leading", i.e. explanations if needed, loot, etc. One of the big things I noted was that group momentum can suffer badly if you pause for long periods before and after bosses, which can be caused by different people explaining different things (such as one person setting up/pulling trash, one person giving boss explanations, and another doing loot). Not that multiple people can't work, it just has the potential to cause problems.

Other then that, gear up and AE everything down =)
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Postby Evangelina » Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:08 am

Worldie wrote:Speed run means:

Pull -> AoE -> Pull -> AoE -> Pull -> AoE -> Pull -> AoE -> Pull -> AoE -> Pull -> AoE -> Pull -> AoE -> rest -> Boss -> Pull -> AoE -> etc


I'll be tanking KZ soon. So can I take a whole undead horses group at once that are before Mignight ?
Still have to work on my gear but I think I'll be around 13K hp and 14K armor unbuffed, and of course uncrittable and uncrushable.
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Postby Pizbit » Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:30 am

With good healers probably, something to remember is that the stable hands hit for nothing really(like 700-800 I think) horses hit a good bit harder but meh. Just kill the stable hands first as they heal.

I'd use CC until you're happy with how many you can tank. Helpfully the pulls start small then get bigger so you can slide in to it if you don't have any CC.
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Postby Aberdon » Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:26 am

Evangelina wrote:
Worldie wrote:Speed run means:

Pull -> AoE -> Pull -> AoE -> Pull -> AoE -> Pull -> AoE -> Pull -> AoE -> Pull -> AoE -> Pull -> AoE -> rest -> Boss -> Pull -> AoE -> etc


I'll be tanking KZ soon. So can I take a whole undead horses group at once that are before Mignight ?
Still have to work on my gear but I think I'll be around 13K hp and 14K armor unbuffed, and of course uncrittable and uncrushable.


Just be aware that chargers charge target/ fear, so if you're aoe tanking the pull, and yes, you can do it, its faster to clear that way... have your DPS stack on the chargers so they don't do the charge/fear
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Postby Lore » Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:33 am

Kara is a 10-man? Man, that would have been good to know a year ago when we were wiping on Attumen...

(typo, my bad ;))
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