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Raid Buff ranking

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Raid Buff ranking

Postby Ironshield » Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:14 am

Is there any theory crafting around on ranking the benefit we get from the various raid buffs?

My raid is currently missing attack speed, physical vulnerability and armour reduction, but that is not counting the hunter pet. Which one most benefits a Prot Paladin? My gut says attack speed, but am I right in assuming this isn't the same as the yummy haste that we are stacking everywhere else?
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Re: Raid Buff ranking

Postby Fenrìr » Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:57 am

Do you have a raid comp of all mages to be missing all three of those?
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Re: Raid Buff ranking

Postby daishan » Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:27 am

Must have zero melee dps or something, which I don't count as a bad thing the way blizz designs many raid bosses.

Unfortunately I can't answer anything beyond confirming that attack speed is _not_ haste.

I'd also be very interested in how valuable each raid buff is tho.
More on a raid wide scale than for personal dps, we run with mostly casters and 1 or 2 rogues and I've often wondered if it would be a raid dps increase for a rogue to be keeping expose armour up considering how little physical dmg my raid comp does.
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Re: Raid Buff ranking

Postby Ironshield » Mon Jun 24, 2013 5:40 am

Fenrìr wrote:Do you have a raid comp of all mages to be missing all three of those?

We don't have a Rogue or a Warrior and our druid is restro, DK and I are both tanks and Shaman is Restro. So going by this helpful spreadsheet, we're stuck relying on our one hunter to provide one of the three. We can occasionally squeeze a FF out of the druid, healing permitting, but still would be good to know for if he isn't there.
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Re: Raid Buff ranking

Postby Fenrìr » Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:03 am

Haven't seen a non melee raid team in quite some time. But I would honestly think that Attack Speed would be more beneficial than the other two given that it might affect white swings. But for overall raid dps increase with just you and a dk tank, maybe sunder from the hunter.
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Re: Raid Buff ranking

Postby KysenMurrin » Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:32 am

Would've thought a Hunter could provide two of them, not just one - doesn't one spec bring Attack Speed passively?
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Re: Raid Buff ranking

Postby daishan » Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:34 am

All hunter specs bring attack power but they need a pet to bring attack speed.
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Re: Raid Buff ranking

Postby KysenMurrin » Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:40 am

I was thinking of the Survival aura that gave the Windfury effect (cannot for the life of me remember what it was called), but I don't know if it's even still in the game tbh.
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Re: Raid Buff ranking

Postby Ironshield » Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:11 am

We also have some monk's lying around ;) , but they don't have any of these buffs in any spec. I was just listing the specs that potentially could bring these buffs in answer to the "how can't you have them" question. Our raid line up changes week by week so we're all trying to ascertain which buffs are best for us individually so that we can make the decision based on who is around.
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Re: Raid Buff ranking

Postby Worldie » Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:50 am

KysenMurrin wrote:I was thinking of the Survival aura that gave the Windfury effect (cannot for the life of me remember what it was called), but I don't know if it's even still in the game tbh.

That was about 1 expansion ago I'm afraid :3
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Re: Raid Buff ranking

Postby Thels » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:28 am

Melee attack speed increases SoI procs, right?

But it's not very much. Perhaps you best look at what the best DPS increase is for the Hunter and Monk.
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Re: Raid Buff ranking

Postby Ironshield » Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:17 am

Thels wrote:Melee attack speed increases SoI procs, right?

But it's not very much. Perhaps you best look at what the best DPS increase is for the Hunter and Monk.

The hunter and the monk are doing that.

But assuming we're in a situation where all the buffs are balanced for the other classes, if one or the other is better for tankadins it would be good to know. I don't even know how to begin evaluating them myself so I can't really get involved in the conversation, any thoughts? I'm guessing from the comments and my fruitless searches that this isn't work that has already been done elsewhere...

I am also assuming that none of these buffs has a survivability improvement for us tanks. Although if SoI procs are affected by attack speed the I would be wrong on that front.
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Re: Raid Buff ranking

Postby Thels » Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:33 am

All other things being equal, I'd take melee attack speed, but the difference is minor.
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Re: Raid Buff ranking

Postby daishan » Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:45 am

Attack speed will give a small increase in SoI procs and Grand Crusader procs, tho I doubt you'd notice either of them.
Physical vulnerability and Armour reduction won't give any personal survivability gains but will give a very small increase to Battle healer raid heals.

I'm sure it's possible to use SimC now Theck has fixed the prot pally module, unfortunately I haven't worked out how to use it yet :/

If I was in your position I'd always want Attack speed for the small boost to dps and survival. Once you have that I very much doubt you'd be able to notice which of the other 2 gives you most personal dps as so little of our dmg is physical.

Having said that it's always nice to know the numbers even if there's very little difference.
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Re: Raid Buff ranking

Postby theckhd » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:30 pm

daishan wrote:Attack speed will give a small increase in SoI procs and Grand Crusader procs, tho I doubt you'd notice either of them.

Won't change Grand Crusader procs, just SoI. 10% attack speed might increase your overall amount of SoI procs by 5% or so.

daishan wrote:Physical vulnerability and Armour reduction won't give any personal survivability gains but will give a very small increase to Battle healer raid heals.

Yup.

I'm sure it's possible to use SimC now Theck has fixed the prot pally module, unfortunately I haven't worked out how to use it yet :/

Download it, import your character, and sim!

To test raid buffs you'd need to toggle them on and off, I believe there's instructions for how to do that in the wiki. Eventually when I'm done implementing everything, I'll be re-doing all of the MATLAB thread sims in SimC, so I can add raid buffs to that.

As far as which gives you the best DPS increase, I'm not entirely sure. My guess is attack speed, but it's probably a toss-up. Remember that a large majority of our damage is holy, so that weakens both Phys. Vuln. and Sunder Armor.
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