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5.4 Sacred Shield

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5.4 Sacred Shield

Postby daishan » Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:49 am

Looking at the data mining the current SS talent is going to be base line for prot and will be renamed Holy Shield.

The new Sacred Shield will be
When you fall below 30% health, you gain Sacred Shield, absorbing 30% of your maximum health. Sacred Shield can only occur once every 2 minutes.

Which sounds pretty nice and I imagine it'll still be our default choice but will it still be much stronger than EF which scales with haste and will have a smaller opportunity cost once we have the T16 4p?

SH might even be interesting, with T16 Veng levels it should be a pretty large heal, possibly a nice oh shit button that doesn't cost holy power on the GCD ofc but could have it's uses especially on some 2 tank fights.
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Re: 5.4 Sacred Shield

Postby Schroom » Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:37 am

SH sounds getting really interesting, for self and offhealing.

instead of:
Image

in 5.4 it will be:

Image

also because they nerf the baseheal on EF, so it is a lot weaker then SH or WoG. Also a HoT isn't really something a tank should worry about. Imho, it will only produce over-healing, as your healers should be midcast already the moment you push that "oh $!TT" button.

I don't really like the new SS because 2 min ICD is really long.
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Re: 5.4 Sacred Shield

Postby daishan » Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:49 am

I get where you're coming from with saying hots are of little value to us, I'm just thinking that we undervalued SoI ticks for a long time.
A guaranteed tick from EF every 2 sec (50% haste) might be quite powerful at reducing spike events.
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Re: 5.4 Sacred Shield

Postby Schroom » Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:13 am

that is something I really never understood. How can a HoT reduce a spike event? In order for this to work, and the HoT smoothing the movement of your healthbar, you have to get that spike event in the first place.

HoTs are great to "reduce" small spikes, sure. but the big spikes, the ones that are really dangerous, I rather have a big absorb, reduce or THAT INSTANT MONSTER HEAL. or you would ahve to use the HoT like a druid healer and put up that big ass HoT before that big damage ability hits you. WoG is used primarily out of a reflex when your healthbar has dropped already. (or for magical fights and you keep HoPo especially for WoG but that's another story)

Also the ticks from EF don't profit form vengeance. keep that in mind ^^

SoI ticks are great, I agree. but we use SoI because we have no other choice. The alternatives are just to weak in DPS to matter. (not speaking of battlehealer and the Casterhaste increase for Sacred/Holy shield)

just my opinion tho ^^
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Re: 5.4 Sacred Shield

Postby daishan » Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:27 am

Damn I'd somehow missed that the EF hot doesn't scale with veng...

As for HoTs reducing spike events I think it depends how you define a spike.
If we're talking about 3-4 unmitigated boss swings in a row we're bound to get a couple of HoT ticks during that time thus "reducing" the magnitude of the spike.

Tho with the HoT not scaling with veng your more than likely right that it's still crap
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Re: 5.4 Sacred Shield

Postby Schroom » Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:56 am

yeah a Hot between a couple of boss swings flattens,that's true. although you would WoG only after those hits, when you are low already.

thus the HoT is only ticking after the Main spike event has taken place already. even worse it costs 3 HoPo so you can't SoTR, possibly creating another spike.

now if you use that instant free FoL after the main spike and SoTR right after you should be safe, knowing that your healers noticed the spike event too and spamming their heals on you.

and yeah if it would scale with veng it could make sense, depending on the fight. but without scaling and less initial healing than WoG I consider it pretty much garbage.
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Re: 5.4 Sacred Shield

Postby daishan » Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:03 am

I was looking at EF combined with the T16 4P as more of a maintenance buff so the HoT would always be there like SoI.
As you say the lack of scaling makes my idea more or less mute.
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Re: 5.4 Sacred Shield

Postby daishan » Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:42 am

Well that was short lived :roll:


Regarding Sacred Shield, we tried giving the talent as a baseline ability to Protection, but we’re unhappy with that experiment and are likely to revert the change. We agree that the current (old) version of Sacred Shield is more attractive to Holy than the (new) version. We also would likely have to nerf Protection to compensate for getting Holy Shield in addition to another talent. Overall, we think the current (old) version of Sacred Shield is a better design. Perhaps we can still make Sacred Shield more attractive for Holy and Retribution, and make the other two talents (Selfless Healer, Eternal Flame) more attractive to Protection.
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Re: 5.4 Sacred Shield

Postby Schroom » Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:57 am

so nothing happened in fact... damn I was already happy for one more spell to play with. but yeah I prefer it stays as is and don't get nerfed ^^
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Re: 5.4 Sacred Shield

Postby theckhd » Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:08 am

Schroom wrote:Also the ticks from EF don't profit form vengeance. keep that in mind ^^

I'm not sure where you got that impression. They do indeed scale with Vengeance, and have for most of the expansion. They're affected by Bastion stacks too.
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Re: 5.4 Sacred Shield

Postby Worldie » Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:38 am

Psst Dai that got posted already 3 pages ago :P
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: 5.4 Sacred Shield

Postby Schroom » Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:07 am

theckhd wrote:
Schroom wrote:Also the ticks from EF don't profit form vengeance. keep that in mind ^^

I'm not sure where you got that impression. They do indeed scale with Vengeance, and have for most of the expansion. They're affected by Bastion stacks too.




WTF?! you are telling me this now?! 3 Months after I released my German Prot guide for non englsih speaking players. Telling everybody that it doesn't scale?!

my source seems to be untraceable now :( (I tried but everything got updated since, not being able in finding most of the original sources, I still keep digging tho as such a big mistakes bothers me, a lot) but my only sources where sacred duty, your mathlab thread, and Wrathbloods "I'm Sexy and I Know it" Thread on EJ.
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Re: 5.4 Sacred Shield

Postby Schroom » Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:48 am

HA! Wowhead might be the bad guy here, at least for the BoG scaling part.


http://www.wowhead.com/spell=114163/ete ... e#comments

The initial heal does benefit from BoG stacks, the HoT does not.


As quoted from Ghostcrawler, "The hot not benefitting from mastery is intended, or that talent might feel mandatory for Prot." Only the direct heal will scale with Bastion of Glory. It's still a solid talent though.


the not scaling with vengeance part was in a similar discussion. But it's about 6 months ago. I really doubt I can find this again :P

although I see, after checking that they had fixed it some time ago and imust have missed this change:

Theck wrote: It's been modified to scale with Bastion of Glory now
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Re: 5.4 Sacred Shield

Postby theckhd » Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:16 pm

Yeah, it originally did not scale with Bastion (though I believe it always has scaled with Vengeance). But they eventually relented because the talent was crap for us and nobody took it. I'm pretty sure I posted testing/results in the Call to Arms thread when it happened.
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Re: 5.4 Sacred Shield

Postby Schroom » Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:32 pm

theckhd wrote: because the talent was crap for us and nobody took it.


it still is ^^


I probably missed it somehow and as nobody takes it ever, I probably never noticed :) thanks for the clarification tho! I corrected it.
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