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Help with Kael'thelas

A'lar, Void Reaver, Solarian, Kael'thas

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Postby Dragonzbane » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:58 am

To steal Dorvan's setup:

Phase 1 -- Telonicus
Phase 2 -- Daggers and Sword
Phase 3 -- Telonicus then heal
Phase 4/5 -- Pick up the Phoenixes and tank them 15-20 yards away from Kael. There's no reason I couldn't tank Kael himself, we just usually run with a Warrior MT.
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Postby Tekkel » Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:53 am

Aye just seen him the first time this monday. Tanking 3 weapons seems quite doable to me atm. Maybe get a 4th when outgearing the place, although I doubt we'll see much of it when outgearing him :)

Phase 1 is bored, phase 2 is tank, phase 3 is conflag eater and haven't seen beyond that because we died within a minute of phase 3 everytime.

Hope we get some progression this week but 2 days a week and clearing ssc in that time as well leaves little for kael.
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Postby Dragonzbane » Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:57 am

Best advice is to find a strategy that works for you guys quickly and hammer it from there.

My guild started on him a while back but we've had a rough time of it.
A lot of our issues stem switching strats a few times.

With the holidays our progress stopped because of spotty attendence by our core raiders and our MT/RL/GM quit raiding this past Sunday because it was too much work for him and he was no longer having fun.

We changed our strat yet again last night but this new one seems to be improving our timing in the 3-4 transition where most of our trouble lies.
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Postby Dorvan » Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:29 pm

Tekkel wrote:Phase 1 is bored, phase 2 is tank, phase 3 is conflag eater and haven't seen beyond that because we died within a minute of phase 3 everytime.


You shouldn't need anyone eating conflags in phase 3, as the staff prevents the disorient and the mace makes is easy for one healer to keep up the Warlock tank. Then again, I wouldn't worry to much about it yet...phase 3 is much easier if once you're able to finish phase 2 with 5-10 seconds to spare (for at least half the raid to get in position, if not everyone).
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Postby Dragonzbane » Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:14 pm

Dorvan wrote:phase 3 is much easier if once you're able to finish phase 2 with 5-10 seconds to spare (for at least half the raid to get in position, if not everyone).


Maybe this is our issue, and everything is snowballing from there?

At the end of phase 2, Bow, Staff, Mace, and Shield are down.
I'm dragging what's left of the Dagger and Sword, less than 10% on both, over to Telonicus and the MT has the axe, which is probably around 50% and ranged focus on that.

We then kill Thaladred, Sanguinar and we hit phase 4 with Telonicus Caperian still up around 30-40% give or take. After Telonicus drops I get in position to pick up Phoenixes while the ranged finish off Caperian. We then have trouble killing the first egg and things completely go to hell.
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Postby Dorvan » Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:33 pm

Yeah, you should really be getting everything down in Phase 2 except possibly the Axe (depending on your strat), and all the advisors down except possibly one going into phase four (we usually have some casters in the back finishing off Capernian as Kael pops, they finish her off withing the first 20 seconds or so of phase 4).
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Postby Jonlo » Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:38 pm

Last night we tried the following:

P1 I run around in circles pretty much enjoying myself as our Warrior tank tanks Telonicus and Sanguinar.
P2 I grab the daggers, shield and what ever else hits me for a moment. Another tank pulls the Axe away (MS Warrior or Feral Druid), and 3 hunters grab the bow. The Swords and Staff are picked up by our MT and the Mace by a feral druid. We AoE everything but the bow and Axe which are shot down by the hunters, and the melee assists on whatever is kicking around starting with the Mace then Staff. Shield last.
P3 The shield is usually around 20% so the MT taunts off me and I run and grab Sanguinar with a Fear Ward on. About 15 seconds later a mage shows up with my shield for the rest of P3. The Feral Druid that was on the Mace grabs Telonicus, who gets DPS'd down immediately by everyone. We then have the Melee and a hunter go to Sanguinar and everyone else on Thaladred. The MT runs around stabbing Thaladred with a dagger.
P4 usually starts with Sanguinar at about 10-5% HP, We finish him quickly and the melee moves over to Kael, and the Range dust off Capernicus. I start looking for Pheonixes and everyone else starts on Kael.
P5: We only got Kael to 58% as the DPS wasn't quick enough onto the eggs. This was our 2nd night on Kael though, hopefully we get better.
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Postby Tiandelin » Sat Jan 12, 2008 10:30 am

My guild is just back from winter holidays and working on Kael again. My personal duties in the fight are pretty much taking conflags in phase 1, tanking the mace, sword, daggers, and shield in phase 2, picking up Telonicus in phase 3, and theoretically the phoenixes afterward, but we're not quite there yet.

One of the biggest difficulties we've been running into, oddly enough, is actually looting the damned weapons. I have a feeling that we waste a lot of time trying to find the things and click on them in just the right place. Add to that the chaos of 3-4 weapons clustered together, several melee standing in the way, and half a dozen AoE spells being tossed around... well, I'm sure you see the point.

So how do you guys deal with that? We've tried things like having someone pull the next weapon to be killed out of the pack for easy looting, but that can cause issues with AoE range. We also tried having me move back whenever a weapon died, but that was a complete disaster.

Typically, we have the axe and a half-dead shield (sometimes an almost-dead sword, ugh) up when phase 3 starts, and obviously that's a little behind. It's very annoying since we're sure we could do much better and probably get him down soon if we can solve this issue.
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Postby Dorvan » Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:38 am

In really depends of what strat you're using, but we generally have some single target DPS on the mace so it goes down before the other AoE weapons. One of two things happens: either another tank taunts the mace off me and drags it about 15-20 yards away from the AoE spot when it gets low, or I move the AoE spot by about the same distance once the mace is dead. That way the healers have easy access to the mace without having to deal with 10 other clickable objects right there.
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Postby Jonlo » Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:21 pm

When a weapon dies for us, the tanks move the other weapons away from it so people can reach it.
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Postby Zaephod » Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:09 pm

This seemed like a related post so I'll ask my question here.

This applies to being MT on Kael. During Phase 5, how far away from Kael do you start after gravity lapse ends and how long do you wait before running in?

Last night, our guild finally got back to phase 5 with 10 minutes left in the raid. Everything was fine, 25/25 alive and kicking. Gravity lapse goes, I move far away, never chain the bolt attack. Gravity lapse ends and the threat whore inside me yelled "RUN IN!!!! GET MORE THREAT!!!! RAWR!!!," etc. I take 5 stacks of the debuff and get two-shotted...sigh. Last attempt of the night and that's what I have to go out on.

So yeah, how long do you wait before going back in? And is there anything visually to give you an indication that it's safe?
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Postby Cakes » Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:24 pm

Zaephod wrote:Last night, our guild finally got back to phase 5 with 10 minutes left in the raid. Everything was fine, 25/25 alive and kicking. Gravity lapse goes, I move far away, never chain the bolt attack. Gravity lapse ends and the threat whore inside me yelled "RUN IN!!!! GET MORE THREAT!!!! RAWR!!!," etc. I take 5 stacks of the debuff and get two-shotted...sigh. Last attempt of the night and that's what I have to go out on.

So yeah, how long do you wait before going back in? And is there anything visually to give you an indication that it's safe?


Protip: Have a mage counterspell him when he casts that first fireball after lapse ends. He'll run right over to whoever is highest on threat (that should be you) and you can begin anew.
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Postby Zaephod » Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:38 pm

Cakes wrote:Protip: Have a mage counterspell him when he casts that first fireball after lapse ends. He'll run right over to whoever is highest on threat (that should be you) and you can begin anew.


Thanks a bunch :) Sadly that was the plan they announced over vent. I guess my ears got clogged up with the excitement of finally getting to phase 5 that I wasn't thinking. Should be better tonight though because the thrill of phase 5 will have worn off of me by then. I want to get back into MH with our 8 newly attuned people :); hopefully with a shiny new T5 chestpiece for the effort.
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Postby Zaephod » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:36 pm

We got him tonight, second attempt. I've now tanked all of SSC with the exception of Tidewalker and Fathom-lord (but each one of the adds) and all of TK except Al'ar. Alt-Attunement week was fun for me :) in that I got to tank all of these encounters our warrior MT normally tanks because he was attuning some of his many other 70s.

I do have one additional question, does the debuff aura stay with him? I kept backing further and further into the room with each gravity lapse just in case and I don't want to do that again unless it's neccessary.
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Postby Worldie » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:49 pm

To not get the Nether Vapor, wait until he finishes casting his last Nether Beam (or whatever was it called) after the lapse, then either run at him or have his first Fireball counterspelled/earthshocked. The aura disappears after that cast anyway. Our MT once did same error you did some months ago, had to SW cause he was at like 15k HP :)
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