[10H] Council of Elders

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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Schroom » Fri May 24, 2013 1:08 am

Bellanka wrote:
I'm usually on both Mar'li and Sul. It was far easier for us to move Sul and Malak to Mar'li than vice versa.


Thanks this helped a lot. Finally downed it yesterday on last attempt after almost 150 trys.

Next up: Mageara HM
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby stevos » Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:38 am

Is it better to burst down Sul ASAP or just make sure his dead before he empowers?

On our first few attempts of council we managed to get Sul down very shortly after the first empowered switch. But I am wondering it would be better to hold off or not.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Paoanii » Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:09 am

stevos wrote:Is it better to burst down Sul ASAP or just make sure his dead before he empowers?

On our first few attempts of council we managed to get Sul down very shortly after the first empowered switch. But I am wondering it would be better to hold off or not.


Get him down as fast as you can while still pushing empowers at the proper times (2-5s after hitting 100 energy).
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Darielle » Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:46 pm

The empowers would continue as Normal because Sul won't be being empowered anyway, so all you get is less interrupting and Quicksand and redicted dps elsewhere. Win-WIn.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Grommash » Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:09 am

Quicker you kill Sul the better. As mentioned if you DPS correctly the order should go Malakk > Marli > Kazra-jin > Sul. So if you kill him earlier it shouldn't effect the encounter at all. Makes it a lot easier as you can start treating Malakk like you did with Sul. Which in turn means that you will get 0-1 empowered frost things on his second empower if he's low enough. At that point it's pretty much a kill as long as you don't forget about the adds Marli spawns.

For what its worth we always try and kill Marli last. She almost always ends up getting killed third and Kazra-jin last, but our reasoning is that we don't want to have to burn through Kazra-jin on his third empower when he has a lot of health left.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Gab » Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:43 am

Grommash wrote:For what its worth we always try and kill Marli last. She almost always ends up getting killed third and Kazra-jin last, but our reasoning is that we don't want to have to burn through Kazra-jin on his third empower when he has a lot of health left.


^ This. We have ranged focus Kazra after Malakk dies during Mar'li empowers. Two melee dps and a tank (me) are enough to keep up on Mar'li empowers with multi-dotting from the ranged dps. This way you don't end up with Kazra at 30%+ hp when Mar'li dies with the raid at high debuff stacks. Could be ugly otherwise. Also be ready to move (interupt) Mar'li if Kazra rolls on top of her when she is nearing the add spawn timer.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Kiz » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:34 am

Gab wrote: Also be ready to move (interupt) Mar'li if Kazra rolls on top of her when she is nearing the add spawn timer.
Kazra should never roll near Mar'li, tell your ranged and heals to get the hell away from her and he won't go there.

edit : also briefly skimmed through and haven't seen it mentioned in this thread. If you're having any issue with frostbites, you can remove some of the casts entirely with a rogue dps using smokebomb on malakk just before he's about to cast it. I'd recommend the second frostbite of the first empower and the frostbite of the second empower with one rogue. Bring two rogues and bomb them all XD
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Gab » Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:56 pm

Kiz wrote:Kazra should never roll near Mar'li, tell your ranged and heals to get the hell away from her and he won't go there.


Wait... Kazra can't target melee?

edit : also briefly skimmed through and haven't seen it mentioned in this thread. If you're having any issue with frostbites, you can remove some of the casts entirely with a rogue dps using smokebomb on malakk just before he's about to cast it. I'd recommend the second frostbite of the first empower and the frostbite of the second empower with one rogue. Bring two rogues and bomb them all XD


Well that's pretty cool!
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Kiz » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:43 pm

Gab wrote:Wait... Kazra can't target melee?

Well he can but I don't see why melee would be anywhere near her when she isn't empowered which is the only time she drops heal critters.
And yeah, you still get the blue arrow over someones head w/ smokebomb, but then nothing happens xD
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby KysenMurrin » Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:28 am

When Kazra and Mar'li are the only ones up, you'd lose a lot of dps by asking melee to chase Kazra around - that's probably why you'd have melee on Mar'li when she's not empowered.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Darielle » Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:21 am

KysenMurrin wrote:When Kazra and Mar'li are the only ones up, you'd lose a lot of dps by asking melee to chase Kazra around - that's probably why you'd have melee on Mar'li when she's not empowered.


When Kaz and Mar'li are the only ones up and Kaz is empowered (which is why Mar'li is spawning Blessed Loas), you'd have the entire raid in one spot so that he just stays in place while you can stack for Discharge and make great use of aoe healing. Especially since he only moves 2-3 times during the entire phase and spends the majority of his time bowed down taking it in the face.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Xfighter » Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:20 pm

The smoke bomb helped us a great deal last night because previously we had to CD through both of the first frostbites, as we seemingly have 0 ranged classes able to immune it...

The bomb got us to the point of almost breaking Kaz from his second empower, with both Frost king and Sul dead last night, so hopefully we should down it in a handful of attempts tonight.


This fight is kind of lame, when you see the two other guilds ahead of you on the realm only wiping to the fight because of the RNG of frostbite not targeting people who can immune it for them (both guilds only have 1-2 unable to immune it, the rest can immune it in some way - compared to us with 0 people able to do so :| )
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Fenrìr » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:28 am

What kind of raid set up to you have that you have no one with any kind of immunity?
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Xfighter » Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:32 am

We typically roll:
Pala/War Tank
Rogue/DK main melee
Spriest/Spriest/Warlock/Warlock
RDruid/RSham

and have someone with another Spriest/Warrior that we rotate around with on fights subbing for one of the ranged (so sometimes have to roll with 3x spriest...)


Overall a pretty terrible comp for 10 mans, but we make it work because we have to; since recruiting and all gets pretty tough.



For anyone approaching this fight without a ton of immunities/good externals:

We used the same comp as above, without the spriest/warrior sub. So 2t/2h/6d (2melee-4ranged) We opted to 2-heal it because our damage overall was low, and in order to 3-heal it we'd have lost our highest damage shadow priest (the other priest wasn't available), and it didn't seem like a viable option.

We split the ranged into 2 groups of three on the pull, for them to be loosely spread out but near the other 2 in their groups. When frostbite went on someone, the other 2 in the group would move in towards them. After about 6-7 seconds of group soaking, all three would move apart and the frostbited person would move towards the middle/front, at that point a personal CD would get used if they had one, followed by 2x HoSac (We tried a vigil but the warrior would get rocked during frigid assault). If it was a warlock, they'd use w/e the warlock shield wall is, then HoSac, followed by dark bargain for the last 8 seconds of the debuff.

On the second frostbite, our rogue would get the smoke bomb off most of the time, allowing the negation of it completely. We had a few successes doing the same CD rotation as above, but it got dicey most of the time, so finding out the bomb trick really helped.


We then did everything the same as others suggest here, but didn't worry too much about the timing on Marli's loa's, and had frost king dead very shortly after his second empower, and >30seconds before his third frost bite would have gone out.

Most raid CDs went out for Kaz's first empower, leaving one for the start of his second/most of the others coming off CD part way through it. At 3% left on Kaz & Marli dead, something like 5 or 6 of our people died, but the remaining few were able to finish it off.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Sagara » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:03 am

Hey guys! We're planning to get back to those guys this Sunday, and I wanted to check wether or Smoke Bomb still worked.
Our strat is getting okay enough for us to get Sul down, but removing the second Frostbite entirely would be huge.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Darielle » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:47 am

Afaik, Smoke Bomb still works.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Belloc » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:41 am

I've also been hearing that a Hand of Protection, used during the pre-frost bite arrow, will remove Frost Bite. It's a short window, of course, but people are already doing this with other immunities so it's not impossible.

I'd like it if someone could confirm, because I haven't heard of anyone using HoP until this week and it'd be great if it were true.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Sagara » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:43 am

BoP works, our healer confirmed so. I'll be checking sunday for HoP.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Belloc » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:09 pm

Unless I misunderstood you, BoP and HoP are the same thing -- BoP is the just old name for it :P
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Sagara » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:16 pm

Gah. Meant DS and HoP.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Darielle » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:45 pm

For Frostbite? DS definitely works, along with Iceblock, so there's no debate there.

Also bear in mind that Frostbite cannot target a melee or tank, and there's nothign else to HoP on the fight anyway.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby PsiVen » Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:28 pm

Belloc wrote:I've also been hearing that a Hand of Protection, used during the pre-frost bite arrow, will remove Frost Bite. It's a short window, of course, but people are already doing this with other immunities so it's not impossible.

I'd like it if someone could confirm, because I haven't heard of anyone using HoP until this week and it'd be great if it were true.


To clarify, I'm pretty sure BoP does not work. Only DS/IB.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Belloc » Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:04 am

I'm going to quote on the Hand of Protection thing:
Frostbite:
- hand of protection from holypala, if his/her reacts are very good use it as fast as possible on the player with the blue arrow and the debuff won't come


Someone challenges it, saying "of course it doesn't work," and he replies,

plz don't say it won't work, if you never tryed it. here the proof @1:32 look to our diszipriest, he got the arrow and our holypala with superreactions give him Hand of Protection...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pJBOeV ... page#t=89s

I can't watch the video at work, but comments on the youtube page back up the claims of the person who posted it. Specifically,
Hi there, I would like to ask, how come come your paladin is able to pre cast bubble on your disc priest for the frost bite debuff on 1:35. Is it on purpose, or do you have some sort of trick to that (target of target macro or something like that).
and
He start Holding (before the Fristbite comes) HoP rdy to instandly click it over the person @ this bossfight its the only moment where he isn't using his raidframe for HoP, but the Holypala need horrible good reflexes, its a window of 0,5sec. after seeing the arrow.


In other words, Hand of Protection works just fine as long as you have the reflexes to both see the arrow and cast it on the target before frostbite is applied.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Winkle » Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:57 am

Belloc wrote:In other words, Hand of Protection works just fine as long as you have the reflexes to both see the arrow and cast it on the target before frostbite is applied.


That's some serious fast reaction time, alternatively you could just pre-cast it on someone for a chance at getting lucky.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Schroom » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:25 am

exactly that's how we do it. we keep an eye on the timer. and have our calsses with imunities use their's. Me and my Holy paladin cast BoP on 2 Players that have no immunities -> win.

we only get 3 frostbites. so we use Brez usually for the one we can't prevent, just ignoring the mechanic completely.
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