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Ji-Kun [25] 800k hits :(

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Ji-Kun [25] 800k hits :(

Postby Huso » Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:26 pm

Hi, sorry if I should post this in the raid section.

Last night I was doing 25man ToT with my guild and got to Ji-Kun, where unfortunetly we wiped more than once.

On our 2nd attempt I died twice (2nd death was I think not enough healing after res) but the first death was from what deathnote showed as a 1 shot, nearly 800k hit from only the 2nd talon rake, was hoping someone could help me understand if this was my player error?, either with me being undergeared (I dont think I am, hopefully) or rotation (as i think I messed up and did not have the Holy power for Shield or maybe miss timed it) should I need to use a large CD for all talon rakes.

My druid co-tank, was also baffled by it too, as we understand talon rake ignores armor so as he had no active CD's such as shield to help he should take more dmg than me, but he only seemed to get hit for 250k approx, I seemed to be getting melee hits from boss for that amount :( .

I would really appreciate any help or advice on this and sorry If this is something I should already know the answer to or could find out easy enough reading up.
Charact: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/emerald-dream/Huso/simple (I have 11month old twins, so have found it hard to find time to play and really gear up)
Logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/lkyicntejt06n0tl/sum/damageTaken/?s=10850&e=11100

Thanks
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Re: Ji-Kun [25] 800k hits :(

Postby Fenrìr » Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:32 pm

If you got hit for that much, you did not have any mitigation up. The timer for rake is pretty spot on but you'll have to learn that if it comes off CD as quills/downdraft happens, it'll come immediately following that. There isn't much of a cast time, so you got to bank and learn that rhythm.



A few other things is to probably match some of your sockets. You seem to be all over the place. haste/stam in blue, straight haste in yellow, exp/haste in red if you're wanting a haste build.
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Re: Ji-Kun [25] 800k hits :(

Postby Huso » Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:57 pm

Thanks for replying.

I am guessing I did not have any mitigation up, but even with the 40% reduction off 800k from shield that still would have been a huge hit compared to my co-tanks dmg.

I will look into my gems, I went for pure haste setup where I could and from what I remeber have only ignored socket bonus for the weak STR ones (from what I read on http://www.sacredduty.net/ it seemed preferred to gem haste and have stam trinkets), I will play around with gems.
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Re: Ji-Kun [25] 800k hits :(

Postby Fenrìr » Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:16 pm

Druids have something that helps them when they crit if I'm not mistaken. If you're keeping up SS on yourself and popping SoTR on time, those hits will be fairly smaller. You're never going to take less damage than a monk or druid, it's just not how we're built. We're built around having Insight as our seal and sacred shield up to both mitigate damage. Not to mention, the insane physical mitigation from SoTR.



I would almost say have your priest go Disc for shields as well.
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Re: Ji-Kun [25] 800k hits :(

Postby Paoanii » Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:41 am

Talon Rake is absolutely reduced by armor.

It's actually pretty easy to check this just by some basic easy number crunching:

From your armor, you're sitting at 55.05% melee damage reduction.

Talon Rake hits for 175% of Ji-kun's melee damage (as per the dungeon journal).

So using your average damage taken numbers, if Talon Rake were not being reduced by armor, it would be doing 175% of Ji-kun's unmitigated melee damage.

(Note that I'm making a lot of assumptions here involving Ji-kun's melee damage, but all in all this should just give an underestimate of the damage that would be done)

(280k (Ji-Kun's average melee swing against you without SotR))/(1 - .5505 (Your physical damage reduction from armor)) = 623k (Ji-kun's average melee damage pre-mitigation)

Now for the Talon Rake damage, we would have:

623k * 1.75 = 1089k on the first stack.

1089k * 1.5 = 1633k on the second stack.

Now if we assume that Talon Rake is in fact mitigated by armor:

623k * 1.75 * (1 - .5505) = 490k on the first stack.

490k * 1.5 = 735k on the second stack.

This attack will swing back and forth ~100k from variability in Ji-kun's melee damage, which leads to the ~800k hit you're seeing and also explaining why your bear tank (who is sitting at 70-75% mitigation from armor) is seeing such lower hits.

You pretty much need to have a SotR up for every one of those talon rakes, which it seems like you did mostly, except that yours had fallen off .15s before the second Talon Rake landed.

[22:28:10.346] Huso's Shield of the Righteous fades from Huso
[22:28:10.503] Ji-Kun Talon Rake Huso 631237 (O: 160469)
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Re: Ji-Kun [25] 800k hits :(

Postby Huso » Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:56 am

Many Thanks for the replies, has helped loads.
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Re: Ji-Kun [25] 800k hits :(

Postby Thels » Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:21 pm

Huso wrote:I will look into my gems, I went for pure haste setup where I could and from what I remeber have only ignored socket bonus for the weak STR ones (from what I read on http://www.sacredduty.net/ it seemed preferred to gem haste and have stam trinkets), I will play around with gems.


But you can use Hit/Haste and Expertise/Haste in those sockets to get to the socket bonuses. Since you still have items reforged towards Hit/Expertise, that won't bring you over the cap, so those socket bonuses are practically free.

Free stats are free stats. Even Strength is useful then.
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Re: Ji-Kun [25] 800k hits :(

Postby Schroom » Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:35 am

mh.... I am still reforging to Expertise and checked out that statement.

with my pure haste gems, I get only .03 % over Exp hardcap with 39.77% Haste.

switching all red sockets with exp/haste takes me way over hardcap so I let pure haste in the ones where I wouldn't get a socketbonus, or the least desirable one.

the closest I got was .05% over hit cap with 36.8% Haste.

that's almost 2% less. So thank you, but no, I'll stay with pure haste gems ignoring socket bonuses. Free stats that steal haste aren't free :P
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Re: Ji-Kun [25] 800k hits :(

Postby Thels » Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:08 am

Would you mind linking your armory, Schroom? I'm guessing there's a lot of Hit/Haste and Expertise/Haste items on your gear, and you're correct that if you have a lot of those pieces, it's a Haste loss to gem for socket bonuses, as you can't reforge those pieces towards Haste.

I personally have a lot of Haste/Mastery items that are unaffected, and then the rest is almost exclusively Hit/Mastery, Expertise/Mastery, and some Expertise/Dodge stuff, so I don't really notice a drop in Haste from filling socket bonuses.

So yeah, I guess it depends on what combination of bonuses are on your items.
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Re: Ji-Kun [25] 800k hits :(

Postby Alcarius » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:44 pm

Don't blindly socket for bonuses. Also consider the level of gear you're using for the content that is being done. I have full haste gems and the DPS meta gem in my gear. It's more about making sure your active mitigation is up when it needs to be than about most other things this tier. Keeping your SS up is very important, it accounts for a lot of damage that gets mitigated to help in smoothing out the intake. Looking at those logs, your SS up-time is extremely inconsistent. Some fights had a ~85% up-time, while others were at ~30%. There's no reason that it shouldn't be up around 90% of the time for every fight and more ideally, closer to that 100% mark.

As for gear itself, you should really consider trying to get a hold of the crafted haste/mastery boots, Haunted Steel Treads, if you have the resources in the guild bank, or yourself. They won't be replaced by anything before Twin Consorts and I'm still using mine waiting for Ra-den to drop his boots. I mean, with 1452 haste with 2xQuick Sun's Radiance and double valor upgraded, it's an item that is really hard to beat.

Truth be told, your gear isn't at the level that mine is and you're working with about half the sockets I have. Just keep that in mind when you're gemming full haste.
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Re: Ji-Kun [25] 800k hits :(

Postby Thels » Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:07 am

Yeah, I've been skipping out on a couple of socket bonuses myself now, after I did some recalculation. Still using Exp/Haste in most of my gems, as I no longer have to reforge out of Expertise. I could get a little more haste from gemming, but that would start to eat into my other stats bigtime.
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