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Politics (formerly Election 2012)

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fridmarr » Mon May 27, 2013 6:04 pm

Don't forget survivor's benefits though, which erodes that offset.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Nooska » Tue May 28, 2013 4:56 am

"My" math (which, I'll freely admit, isn't done by me, but skimmed off some studies a good while ago) does take that into consideration. The nota bene in my math is "under socialised healthcare" ie healthcare where the patient has 0 out of pocket expense and it is all payed for through taxation.

An addendum to that, whne looking at the scandinavian healthcare systems (which have been socialised for a good long while, so will likely be representative) - the wealthiest part of the population get a relatively higher part of the treatments than what would be "fair" when looking at the tax distribution. This ha snothing to do with ealth as such, but the fact the the more money you make, the more likely you are to be a ressourceful person, that demands more from the healthcare system, as opposed to less wealthy people, generally being less resourceful (and more authoritarian) so they get less in the healthcare system, and get sent home more easily.

That is besides the point though - the nonsmoking populace get older, but they are healthier as they get older than the smoking populace is even though they die younger (all generally speaking). The societal benefits of not smoking outweight the societal benefits of not having to care for someone into their old age.
(and keep in mind, these studies when being done under socialised healthcare include the pensions of the same countries, so in scadinavia a age pensioner currently recieves 1500 USD gross per month (before things like rent adjustment) as a married or cohabitating pensioner, and 2050 USD gross per month as a single pensioner.
A Single pensioner in a rented flat like the one I live in will in addition be given 550 USD in rent assistance (tax free), so a single pensioner will have a monthly net income of 2050 USD (in the case of my flat, the rent assistance would actually equal the taxes) - a yearly net income of 24,600 USD, all from the government for singles (slightly lower for married or cohabitating couples of course, but they would recieve a higher rent assistance).

^the above is to illustrate that the expenses of growing old is, indeed, included in the studies I'm leaning on.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Tue May 28, 2013 5:43 am

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby aureon » Tue May 28, 2013 9:36 am

Klaudandus wrote:
Amirya wrote:
Klaudandus wrote:Ohio school district's new curriculum mandates that for controversial issues, "all sides" of the issue are to be presented
http://www.boarddocs.com/oh/scsdoh/Boar ... 240%20.pdf

For purposes of this policy, controversial issues include: religion when not used in a historical or factual context, sex education, legalization of drugs, evolution/creation, pro-life/abortion, contraception/abstinence, conservatism/liberalism, politics, gun rights, global warming and climate change, UN Agenda 21 and sustainable development, and any other topic on which opposing points of view have been promulgated by responsible opinion and/or likely to arouse both support and opposition in the community.

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Was tempted to bold evolution, but I find it more WTF worthy that they actually consider teaching Glenn Beck conspiracy theories.


Global warming, climate change, and sustainable development is controversial? Wtf did I miss?


Its obviously unamerican!


American_Politics.html
Creationism.html
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Tue May 28, 2013 9:44 am

Well the unamerican part was me being facetious to a degree...

But there is people that do think that certain topics/policies are inherently unamerican.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Jabari » Tue May 28, 2013 12:44 pm

Klaudandus wrote:And the reason why I don't talk about the parts I agree with republicans is because, according to my friends it makes me a racist and a hater of my own race (being part latino)...


Sounds like you need new friends, then. *shrug*

Out of curiosity, where do you get your news and info from?
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Jabari » Tue May 28, 2013 12:52 pm

Amirya wrote:Global warming, climate change, and sustainable development is controversial? Wtf did I miss?


Probably referencing "anthropogenic global climate change" (i.e., man-made global warming), which is somewhere between "controversial" and "a complete fabrication".

http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrara/2013/05/26/to-the-horror-of-global-warming-alarmists-global-cooling-is-here/
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue May 28, 2013 1:15 pm

Reading that article, I see a lot of interesting stuff about the solar cycles and how it effects temperature, and then a bunch of unsupported assertions of how man-made global warning is nonsense. Piggybacking "man-made global warming doesn't exist" on the back of unrelated scientific information that neither proves nor disproves it doesn't really make a valid argument. Just because temperatures are affected by one thing doesn't mean they're not affected by others.

Edit: An analogy occured to me this morning to deomnstrate my problem with this article. The argument against global warming in this article is like me saying "I get woken up every morning by cars in the street outside, therefore my alarm clock doesn't work."
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Paxen » Tue May 28, 2013 3:51 pm

Yeah, that article is pretty poor. It's an opinion piece by a pundit about a field where he disagrees with most of those who actually study it scientifically for a living. Excuse me if I completely ignore him.

"Global warming" isn't very descriptive, I'll give you that. Weather is a very chaotic system where it's hard to predict specifics (but easier to predict global trends). More and more climate sceptics are coming around to the idea that humans have played a part in the climate change.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby aureon » Tue May 28, 2013 8:47 pm

(Emphasis mine)
Forbes wrote:You will not get the truth about that from the Washington Post, the New York Times, or the rest of the self-regarded “establishment” media. They are devoted to the fun and games of play acting as if there is no legitimate scientific debate over whether mankind’s use of low cost, reliable energy from oil, coal and natural gas portends catastrophic global warming that threatens life on the planet as we know it.


http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/8/2/024024/article

Well, everyone is entitled to one's own opinion, on Maintankadin, on Forbes, anywhere.
But not to one's own facts, ESPECIALLY on Forbes.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Wed May 29, 2013 11:32 am

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Passionario » Thu May 30, 2013 12:13 am

Klaudandus wrote:But there is people that do think that certain topics/policies are inherently unamerican.

The only thing fitting that description that comes to mind is this politician's proposal to sink the entire North American continent with tectonic superweapons.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Thu May 30, 2013 9:21 am

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Shoju » Thu May 30, 2013 1:21 pm

Hitting on the Ohio Education system, I'm growing increasingly furious with my son's HONOR'S History teacher, and her incredibly republican, batshit crazy, not presented as opinion, bashing of the president, and presentation of conspiracy theories as fact in modern history. I have spoken to the school administrators about it, presented copies of the handouts, book lists, and other such items as proof, and was told that I may be asked to speak in front of the school board regarding my dissatisfaction about her teaching.

Seriously. They spent a month of a "modern american history class" being lectured about how Obama is the evil in the world, and why he needs to be impeached, and using youtube videos as in class videos to support it.

I've never wanted to vomit so much in my life.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Thu May 30, 2013 3:36 pm

sweet jeebus!
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