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Weapon Enchant

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Re: Weapon Enchant

Postby Setokaiba » Fri May 17, 2013 4:21 am

theckhd wrote:It's not a bad choice. I'm not sure any of them really stand out as strong for defense anymore. I liked Colossus, but it also doesn't scale with boss damage, so by heroic T15 content it's falling behind. May still be a better smoothing enchant than Windsong, but probably not by much if at all. And the dps trade from going to Dancing Steel or Windsong is pretty huge.


Ok yeah thanks:)
I'm just thinking WS vs DS as overall.

Comparing "WS DPS+DEF" vs "DS DPS+DEF" - what would you choose?:) or what are the stats in that matter.
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Re: Weapon Enchant

Postby Schroom » Fri May 17, 2013 5:14 am

I chose DS had one riad with it, and Wow never want to go back again. I also use 2 on procc strenght trinkets atm with all 3 buffs up I get a huuuge amount of parry and lots of DePS. The only trouble atm is that our warrior tanks starts getting trouble keeping the boss after taunting, even with me giving myself Hand of salvation.
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Re: Weapon Enchant

Postby Worldie » Fri May 17, 2013 6:09 am

You shouldn't base your experience on "moments in which all stars align and I get all the procs up at same time".
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Re: Weapon Enchant

Postby Schroom » Fri May 17, 2013 6:47 am

well while surveying the proccs (and the ICD) it can be timed quite well and preplaned when those proccs happen (excep for DS of course as it is RPPM)

maybe you know the experience from Warlocks (which is my alt, so I can compare the best) or other similar classes.
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Re: Weapon Enchant

Postby Worldie » Fri May 17, 2013 8:08 am

Remember that if you get stacked procs, it means you will have a long period of time (ICD) during which you will have no proc up thus your DPS will actually be much lower.
That's why you don't base DPS upon proc stacking but rather up average effect of procs.
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Re: Weapon Enchant

Postby theckhd » Mon May 20, 2013 8:58 am

As far as I'm aware, Windsong and DS don't have an ICD to begin with, so that's a non-issue.

Also, Worldie, that logic is completely wrong. Getting two procs simultaneously (i.e. haste and crit) is a bigger DPS increase than getting them serially (i.e. the second after the first expires). That's why most classes like to line up as many procs as they can with potions, initial cooldowns, and heroism at the beginning of a fight.
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Re: Weapon Enchant

Postby Schroom » Tue May 21, 2013 1:47 am

theckhd wrote:As far as I'm aware, Windsong and DS don't have an ICD to begin with, so that's a non-issue.


yup it's RPPM so nonissue.

theckhd wrote:Also, Worldie, that logic is completely wrong. Getting two procs simultaneously (i.e. haste and crit) is a bigger DPS increase than getting them serially (i.e. the second after the first expires). That's why most classes like to line up as many procs as they can with potions, initial cooldowns, and heroism at the beginning of a fight.


that's what I thought that's also why I like to track this stuff. I got nonRPPM trinekts that procc strength. so I also prefer to track the ICD. and if I see that they will procc in the next few seconds, I might delay stuff like wings, HA, or ES just to take that strength into the brust and gain more DPS.

a prefect example is the level 90 Talent in fakt, as it snappshots the AP at the moment you cast it. So saying it will drop off Cooldown in the next few seconds,

first: if I'm not aktively tanking, I check my vengeancelevel, has it dropped of yet? when I know a fight I know what vengeancelevels to expect in what phase so I can see if it would eb worth using ES now or wait a couple of seconds if I am going to taunt soon.
second: what is my CD on Wings? is it ready now or pretty soon?
then: Trinkets: are they active now? pretty soon?

those are all informations helping me judge if I use my level 90 Talent now or wait a couple of seconds.
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Re: Weapon Enchant

Postby Setokaiba » Tue May 21, 2013 2:40 am

Schroom wrote:
theckhd wrote:As far as I'm aware, Windsong and DS don't have an ICD to begin with, so that's a non-issue.


yup it's RPPM so nonissue.

theckhd wrote:Also, Worldie, that logic is completely wrong. Getting two procs simultaneously (i.e. haste and crit) is a bigger DPS increase than getting them serially (i.e. the second after the first expires). That's why most classes like to line up as many procs as they can with potions, initial cooldowns, and heroism at the beginning of a fight.


that's what I thought that's also why I like to track this stuff. I got nonRPPM trinekts that procc strength. so I also prefer to track the ICD. and if I see that they will procc in the next few seconds, I might delay stuff like wings, HA, or ES just to take that strength into the brust and gain more DPS.

a prefect example is the level 90 Talent in fakt, as it snappshots the AP at the moment you cast it. So saying it will drop off Cooldown in the next few seconds,

first: if I'm not aktively tanking, I check my vengeancelevel, has it dropped of yet? when I know a fight I know what vengeancelevels to expect in what phase so I can see if it would eb worth using ES now or wait a couple of seconds if I am going to taunt soon.
second: what is my CD on Wings? is it ready now or pretty soon?
then: Trinkets: are they active now? pretty soon?

those are all informations helping me judge if I use my level 90 Talent now or wait a couple of seconds.


I'm not sure if we are talking about lvl90 talent or about aligning your trinket procs:)

theckhd wrote:As far as I'm aware, Windsong and DS don't have an ICD to begin with, so that's a non-issue.

Also, Worldie, that logic is completely wrong. Getting two procs simultaneously (i.e. haste and crit) is a bigger DPS increase than getting them serially (i.e. the second after the first expires). That's why most classes like to line up as many procs as they can with potions, initial cooldowns, and heroism at the beginning of a fight.

Anyway, tried WS this week. On average there's 5-10 secs per fight when both buffs up. So dunno if that makes a difference, but again, good when solo tanking:)
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Re: Weapon Enchant

Postby theckhd » Tue May 21, 2013 4:29 am

Setokaiba wrote:I'm not sure if we are talking about lvl90 talent or about aligning your trinket procs:)

Well, the two aren't unrelated. Execution Sentence snapshots your current stats (AP primarily, as it's not affected by haste) when you cast it, so you can get a sizable DPS increase by stacking as many effects as you can before using ES. Light's Hammer updates dynamically though, so the same trick isn't as useful with LH.
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Re: Weapon Enchant

Postby Schroom » Tue May 21, 2013 11:53 pm

theckhd wrote:
Setokaiba wrote:I'm not sure if we are talking about lvl90 talent or about aligning your trinket procs:)

Well, the two aren't unrelated. Execution Sentence snapshots your current stats (AP primarily, as it's not affected by haste) when you cast it, so you can get a sizable DPS increase by stacking as many effects as you can before using ES. Light's Hammer updates dynamically though, so the same trick isn't as useful with LH.



thank you, that's what I meant.

thanks for indicating that LH is dynamic. wasn't to sure here, that's why I generalized. HoPr is a one time thing as well all know, so stacking effects here can be nice as well. Although, as the Cooldown is really short, one should only delay it by a couple of seconds at the most.
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Re: Weapon Enchant

Postby Thels » Tue May 28, 2013 8:01 am

Schroom wrote:I chose DS had one riad with it, and Wow never want to go back again. I also use 2 on procc strenght trinkets atm with all 3 buffs up I get a huuuge amount of parry and lots of DePS. The only trouble atm is that our warrior tanks starts getting trouble keeping the boss after taunting, even with me giving myself Hand of salvation.


Perhaps take off RF when the other tank taunts (Macro it together with Salvation, or give it it's own cancelaura macro), and then macro Righteous Fury in with Reckoning? You might have to spam the button a little as RF is affected by the GCD, though interestingly, RF doesn't trigger the GCD, so you can press another button immediately after, resulting in no DPS loss.
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Re: Weapon Enchant

Postby Schroom » Wed May 29, 2013 12:24 am

that's kind of what I did, depending on the fight. got the macro keybound. as it is quite handy for fights like Horridon HM and Tortos HM as well.
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Re: Weapon Enchant

Postby Thels » Wed May 29, 2013 3:28 pm

Tell me about it. :P I kept getting healing aggro on the Horridon adds, so actually took RF off while tanking the boss. Felt a little weird, but it worked out to a kill. I'm not tanking him at the first gate, though.
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Re: Weapon Enchant

Postby Promdates » Thu May 30, 2013 6:43 am

Thels wrote:Tell me about it. :P I kept getting healing aggro on the Horridon adds, so actually took RF off while tanking the boss. Felt a little weird, but it worked out to a kill. I'm not tanking him at the first gate, though.


We had this issue early on in the learning process of the fight. Eventually, I just replaced Glyph of Battle Healer with something else and went about my business. I'm not sure if it's because I'm tanking the boss just slightly away from the group so that I'm not near the adds when they spawn, or if our DK is just that much more comfortable with the adds now. But I've gone back to Battle Healer and haven't had any issues with add aggro.
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