[10H] Council of Elders

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[10H] Council of Elders

Postby marcojoao » Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:00 am

Hello ppl

My guild will start the progression on this boss, do you have any tips to share?
We will try the strat of killing the sand troll 1st in BL
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Bemxuu » Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:02 pm

My best tip is ... don't. Make sure you've done Tortos and Ji-Kun by the very least.

Killing Sul before first storm seems to be the only way to go - it's so much aoe right after aoe-heavy phase of Kazra'jin. Make sure one of the tanks gets some aggro on Mar'li in the very beginning, interrupt as many casts of Sul as you can and beat the hell out of Sul. It's fine to see some ticks of aoe damage, they don't hurt much before they're like 7 or 8, so - hey, free dps time! Aim for 40% Sul here and 20% past Mar'li.
The fight is pretty much over when you finish Sul. One final straight burn of Malakk might be the last obstacle, but if you handled first two Frostbites, extra one is not too dangerous.

The ways of dealing with Frostbite and stacks are up to you :) There are multiple, choose the one you like.

The composition varies. I've seen weird kills with 4 healers, two being dedicated atonement healers outside of emergency situations, but 3 healers strat works so much better. I am quite sure it will be a while before 2healing this will become common strategy. Also, this fight is one-tankable by guardian druid as that Malak thingy applies no stacks of debuff if you dodge the attack (parries don't work though).
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Galiks » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:55 am

Solo tanked as a prot paladin to add an extra dps to burn Sul much sooner. 3 heals.

Interrupt rotation on Sul. We have a rogue get the majority of kicks by adding in Deadly Throw and Glyph of Rotation and he calls for assistance when he misses.

Have a ranged taunt bounce on the Frigid Assault with a holy paladin, moonkin, melee dps, etc.

Hand of Sacrifice rotation on Frostbite targets initially, then free-lance who can stack. Tank/melee group are usually always the only static group each attempt since they cannot be chosen by Frostbite. Immune Frostbite before it is applied with invulnerabilities (Divine Shield, Cloak of Shadows, Ice Block, etc.).

Stack all adds on Mar'Li when she's empowered, stay at ranged when she's not.


If you did this fight 100% optimally on normal the strategy is pretty much the same besides Frostbite handling and Mar'li's Twist of Fate, which always chooses a melee and a ranged class so it's not that bad.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Grommash » Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:23 pm

If you had enough sacrifices is it feasible to just CD rotate? Our group has anywhere from 2-3 paladins available.

I assume with a monk (preferably a guardian druid) that ping-ponging Frigid Assault wouldn't be necessary due to the shear amount of avoidance they have.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Darielle » Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:42 pm

Grommash wrote:If you had enough sacrifices is it feasible to just CD rotate? Our group has anywhere from 2-3 paladins available.

I assume with a monk (preferably a guardian druid) that ping-ponging Frigid Assault wouldn't be necessary due to the shear amount of avoidance they have.


Frigid Assault still stacks on Parry.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Bemxuu » Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:24 pm

I'd recommend adding some other saves to the mix as Double Sacrifice will put the paladin at risk - there's a ton of damage, really. However, doing like Sac-smth_else_or_sac_by_another_paladin-Sac is fine. The way we did it was: 1 personal cd (the debuffed person will react faster, so initial cd is on him) then sac then pain suppression. We have a lot of classes capable of dodging the debuff, so it's fine for us to blow all external cds on one person.

Monks will have harder times solotank this. I tried reforging/regemming into dodge/agility, but I still got stunned. Taunt ping-pong is not an option as well since monk's taunt gives his target 50% movespeed. Druids would do tho.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Chronos » Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:28 am

Isnt Marli's spam casts huge damage? Just heal thru it with one tank?
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Darielle » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:39 pm

Chronos wrote:Isnt Marli's spam casts huge damage? Just heal thru it with one tank?


You can also heal a dps through it if your healers are expecting it. It's pure magic damage so something like a Shadow Priest or Hunter, or even one of the melee specs like a DPS DK or Feral with passive reduction is pretty much fine to soak it as long as they maintain threat - they just need to be on point with Frostbite and so on.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Bemxuu » Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:55 pm

Usually, one of the tanks gains some threat on her before moving on to thrashing Sul. On most videos I've seen it was the same tank who initially picked up Malakk. I picked both Malakk and Sul, though, and that still worked for us.

She just keeps casting Loa on that initial tank unless one of your damage dealers pulls the threat off the tank, then there's a lot of threat generated on her empowered phase, so it's safe to damage her afterwards.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Grommash » Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:04 pm

We were thinking about 1 tank 3 healing this but our WW monk doesn't really do a whole lot of cleave damage, I think we would get more AoE damage and a lot less complications with bouncing Malakk around via range taunts if he just went BM.

Some things to note for others doing this. Priest void tendrils are incredibly powerful and brainless way to deal with Marlis loa spirits. Loa spirits automatically reach their target after 20 seconds and void tendrils is a 20 second root that doesn't break on damage. Since the spirits don't do damage they will stay up the entire time. Not that it's a huge hurdle, but it might save some GCDs using knockbacks, stuns, and snares.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Bemxuu » Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:15 am

Have your monk heard of his 5.2 ability, Storm, Earth and Fire? With a little practice he can do whole lot of cleave damage.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Donatist » Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:22 am

Cleave damage is important but its not mandatory. But as was mentioned above, monks do have a cleave now! What we actually do after malakk since we lust there and tank cleave usually does like 19% alone, is we dps the empowered one first till 10% left on empowered than go back to SUL and at 90 energy burn the empowered again. Remember 5 ticks or less at 100 is healable except possible on Kazrajin without a CD.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Volitaire » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:12 am

We ended up two tanking due to lineup issues. Burned Sul and then just handled the rest of them as necessary. The most dangerous part of the fight for us is whenenver Kazra'jin was empowered as we would very quickly blow ourselves up if we weren't careful. Our Kill video with mumble is below.

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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Grommash » Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:36 pm

Boss really wasn't that bad, took 3 hours overall, a lot easier than Megaera for us because the moving components weren't as random. Once we consistently killed Sul the fight fell over fairly quickly.

If you do the fight and timings correctly you can do the entire fight with only two frost bites total. Once Sul dies most of our cleave goes on Malakk/Kazara'jin during the Marli empower. You should try to push Marlis empowerment just as a frost bite goes out so that you have a good 30-40 seconds when Malakk gets empowered where you don't have to deal with a frost bite.

We do something similar with the very first Malakk empower, eating Dark Power from him (for the extra DPS on Sul) until Marli spawns an additional loa. If you push Malakk too fast you will start the Marli empower with twisted/fate LoA off CD and have to deal with a twisted fate instead. Twisted fate on it's own is easy to deal with but pushing Malakk too fast will mean you will deal with three twisted fates during Marlis empower instead of two, which is more DPS lost.

We used a mix of personals, sacrifice, pain suppression, barrier and iron bark to get through the frost bite. If you watch prior to frost bite like hawk you can have your mages, paladins and balance druids (with CloS and I believe AMS symbiosis) completely immune it, making it a lot easier. You just have to immune it before it actually goes out.

If your DPS is high enough you will kill Sul before Kazara'jin empower or right when he empowers. It's certainly doable half way through his empower but you will be pressed for time. Dark power during Kazra'jin is incredibly dangerous. If you can survive the second Kazra'jin empower (which is the one we chain raid CDs on) you will easily beat the encounter. We make sure damage is high on Kazra'jin during his non-empowers so that he is very close to dead on his last empower (such that we can just burn it down).

The ball thing really isn't that delicate at all. We went to 10 stacks on each of our melee, then it went on our most durable range/healers. Once Malakk and Sul are dead we just have them sit on the tanks for the remainder of the encounter. If you're doing this fight for the first time put more emphasis on learning the other mechanics, the ball thing is really easy to deal with and shouldn't be overcomplicated.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Riemu » Wed May 15, 2013 7:24 am

Hey Guys!

I have two questions regarding solo tanking

a) how do you handle the Frigid Stacks without people getting killed/critted during? Or doesnt he melee while he builds stacks? We have Holy P / Fury Warri available for ping-pong

b) how do you handle the healing add on mar-li or mar-li in general? You just build some ranged aggro on her and then just let her cast while you tank the other stuff far away?


Is solo tanking that much more viable then two tanking?
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Rokh » Wed May 15, 2013 10:27 pm

This fight.... man.... really shows you who in your guild is a derp.


Have most of the heroics on farm, only ones not down yet are this, twins, and lei shen.

4 nights on this, cant get past frost king.. not even kidding... 100+ attemps and we cant even get past 2 frostbites.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Schroom » Wed May 15, 2013 11:28 pm

Riemu wrote:
a) how do you handle the Frigid Stacks without people getting killed/critted during? Or doesn't he melee while he builds stacks? We have Holy P / Fury Warri available for ping-pong


oh he does melee. The player who taunts has to be at max range, use a speedbuff or something, kite him for a couple of seconds. same with the second player before the tank taunts back again. As long as the boss is out of meleerange he can't hit you.

that's why I don't like this strategy. To risky and I don't see the benefit. Tanks do as much, if not more DPS here than some real DPS players.

I save all my offensive cooldowns for Marli when she gets possessed and joins the meleecamp as we want her out of possession asap. so me and my tankpartner are usually Number one DPS on Marli.

Riemu wrote:
b) how do you handle the healing add on mar-li or mar-li in general? You just build some ranged aggro on her and then just let her cast while you tank the other stuff far away?


on the pull I go for her immediately and drag her next to the stairs (where you continue to Tortos after the fight) being a pally tank I interrupt the first cast with my Shield. which makes it so much easier to drag her over as you still got your regular interupt if needed for the seond cast. While dragging her I build some threat until she's in position. (about 4-6 seconds). then I sprint to the meleecamp (which is about where Garajal floats before the start of the fight.) taunt Sul off of the other tank until he gets his stacks from Malakk. Marli continues to cast on me the whole time. It's a little bit of a pain when I taunt Malakk and get my frostbites while Marli is casting on me. I keep my GoAk for this, ask for painsup/Sac.

as the first round of possessions is fix and Marli is the second Boss to be possessed we wait until we killed the second healing Loa ghost and then interrupt Marli until she reaches me. Usually if the timing is right, she gets possessed right that moment. again we wait for the second time she makes those dark copies, after which the tank who is tanking Sul at that moment drags him out to the former position of Marli (and we move our meleecamp there).

that's about as far as we got yet after about 50 pulls.


Riemu wrote:Is solo tanking that much more viable then two tanking?


I would only recommend it if you have a druid tank.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Bellanka » Thu May 16, 2013 6:17 am

Riemu wrote:Hey Guys!

I have two questions regarding solo tanking

a) how do you handle the Frigid Stacks without people getting killed/critted during? Or doesnt he melee while he builds stacks? We have Holy P / Fury Warri available for ping-pong

b) how do you handle the healing add on mar-li or mar-li in general? You just build some ranged aggro on her and then just let her cast while you tank the other stuff far away?


Is solo tanking that much more viable then two tanking?


Re: Mar'li

I use a macro that targets her specifically with Judgment, since it's not directionally dependent on cast. Should be enough to keep her on you the whole time.

As for her add: Shadow Priest with Void Tendrils is a lifesaver there. If no Shadow Priest, check what stuns you have available and how fast it dies.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Grommash » Thu May 16, 2013 6:19 pm

Rokh wrote:This fight.... man.... really shows you who in your guild is a derp.


Have most of the heroics on farm, only ones not down yet are this, twins, and lei shen.

4 nights on this, cant get past frost king.. not even kidding... 100+ attemps and we cant even get past 2 frostbites.


You did Heroic Animus before Council? Wow.

Call out 5 seconds before a frost bite goes out for your range to be watching their head. You have a GCD to react and on some classes you can immune it. If frostbites are that much of a problem for your guild I would pile mass defensive CDs into the first one and just let the second frost bite die. If you push Marli through her second empowerment right as a frost bite goes out you shouldn't have to deal with another empowered frost bite as you will have 30 seconds to finish Malakk off. Regardless if it happens or not you can easily 9 man the encounter from that point on.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Schroom » Thu May 16, 2013 11:13 pm

our main problem atm is that either malak or marli overpowers and kills us :(

well the rest of the mechanics work atm so it is only a queston of the right DPS distribution. (using the second pot on marli already FYI)
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Grommash » Fri May 17, 2013 12:43 am

What do you mean by overpower? Full power? And you mean the first Malkk and Marli empower?

If those are problems you just need to shift more DPS to them while you're doing as much damage to Sul as possible. Them going full power really isn't that bad and you can likely use devotion for them. I think it's been stated here a few times but a good goal to get Sul is 20% or lower before the first Kazra'jin empower. Any higher and you're going to get full power on Kazra'jin which isn't an ideal situation.

For reference we bring two melee who interrupt Sul along with the tank full time. The melee (feral/retribution) pretty much full tunnel Sul the entire time while our range double dot and cleave to everything else (including Sul). We just watch full power and if it looks like a particular power is really far behind you just have your DPS stop on Sul or whatever and start DPSing the empowered add. Ideally you don't want dark power to reach 90 and have 15-20% to go. 5% or so is a relatively easy burn that can be done in less than 10 seconds with focused DPS.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Schroom » Fri May 17, 2013 4:58 am

For reference we bring two melee who interrupt Sul along with the tank full time. The melee (feral/retribution) pretty much full tunnel Sul the entire time while our range double dot and cleave to everything else (including Sul). We just watch full power and if it looks like a particular power is really far behind you just have your DPS stop on Sul or whatever and start DPSing the empowered add


that's about the same we do. nonetheless, malak or marli go to 100% with 8 or more percent to go and yeah at the ebginning it doesnßt hurt that much, but after a while and after to devotion auras that ran out it is just a Raidwide onehit. so as I said is is really only a thing of DPS distribution and targetswitching at the right time.

(iE getting marli to the camp just before she gets possessed and not 30 seconds later, although some of our rangeDPS are complaining that they interrupt her but she doesn't move...)
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Grommash » Fri May 17, 2013 1:24 pm

They are probably interrupting her when she is still not empowered. Remember she casts from a holy school normally and a shadow school when empowered. You have to wait until she's empowered to interrupt her, or simply move Malakk/Sul over to her.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Bellanka » Tue May 21, 2013 6:52 am

Grommash wrote:They are probably interrupting her when she is still not empowered. Remember she casts from a holy school normally and a shadow school when empowered. You have to wait until she's empowered to interrupt her, or simply move Malakk/Sul over to her.


I'm usually on both Mar'li and Sul. It was far easier for us to move Sul and Malak to Mar'li than vice versa. We don't interrupt Mar'li at all until Sul is dead, and at that point I switch to her. Too many instances where a trigger-happy RDPS interrupts her and she comes running into Sul and Malak to throw out a heal.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Grommash » Tue May 21, 2013 10:46 am

Wish we had your range DPS at times then (not this encounter). Our range DPS are incapable of using interrupts at all, but our melee are fairly pro at doing it consistently and/or on the fly lol.
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