[10H] Twin Consorts

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[10H] Twin Consorts

Postby timoseewho » Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:15 pm

Hello, just about to start Twin Consorts on heroic, anyone who's done it have any advice? The main question here is which aids do you guys use in P1/P2 since it only resets in P3 and is killing Suen first still the way to go? We got to P3 but died to the inferno, just kind of wing'ed it-_-.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Grommash » Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:14 pm

Is DPS going to be an issue for you at all?

We kinda do this boss at the end of each week for a couple of hours as a sort of bonus and have been slowly chipping away at it. Should die this week. Some of our DPS is weak so we are forced at the moment to two heal it to meet the enrage, when we were three healing it seemed really easy.

We have a healer do cranes almost immediately as soon as the fight starts and just have the tank keep Suen stationary for the first stars. It's only really possible for him to reveal 1 (sometimes two if they spawn close) adds on the first one anyway. This enables some cleave action and the cranes do a decent chunk to Suen, and P1 is the only time you can really double dip on the cranes. P2 I find hard to make use of the cranes because she zips around the room.

I am sure we are doing something wrong but we don't even bother with Xuen in the first few phases. As mentioned we use cranes at the start of P1 and typically use the green dragon at the start of P2 before the first nuclear.

The fight is really controllable IMO and P3 isn't that hard on healing, most of it's just burst damage with stars plus comets.

The only increasingly frustrating part of this fight from my perspective is sometimes having one meteor prior to the first nuclear and sometimes having two. Two makes it feel more intended, while only having one leaves us with a high probability one of our DPS is going to get destroyed by the instant nuke she does.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby timoseewho » Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:14 am

Dps won't seem to be an issue with us as most of us will be obtaining the meta soon, but the part where you mentioned using cranes in P1 intrigued me as I've seen a few videos doing that and didn't know why. How exactly do you double dip with Suen disappearing right away and only showing up for a few seconds tops? We were thinking of just using the cranes in P2 to truck Suen down. And what are you referring to when you say 'stars'? Thanks for the quick response!
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Grommash » Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:31 pm

I meant her light of day or whatever it's called, the thing that reveals lurker.

She only stays up for like 8-10 second per light of day and on the first one there is only a max of two lurkers out. We usually have cranes out during that time because 3-4 of them will hit her during the short time she's up. It's not a lot but each crane does what, 1.2 or 1.5 million damage? It can shave off a couple percent.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby timoseewho » Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:55 pm

Thanks!
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Galiks » Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:50 am

Unexpectedly killed this boss in like 20 minutes. Big joke with the stars nerf I guess. The strategy is very similar to normal, but I'll post the most important steps.

2 tank. 3 heal. 5 dps.

Celestial Activation (all done by a single healer as damage is most important - we let a holy paladin do it):
Dark Phase
1. Xuen the Tiger activates before the second set of stars to catch Suen while spinning in the dark phase and making the stars avoidable. You have twice the uptime on pumping damage into her, and twice the time to reveal invisible Lurker adds.
2. Towards the end of this phase, activate the Ox to prevent any gibs from excessive shadow adds/stars.

Sun Phase
3. Activate crane near immediately
4. Activate serpent's vitality whenever

Dusk Phase
1. Immediately activate Xuen the tiger to avoid Lilen's first Tidal Wave
2. Before the second tidal wave, activate Ox
3. Activate crane any time after Xuen with your offtank or healer
4. Serpent's whenever

Critical points:
1. Prot paladin ALWAYS taunts off Lilen for Beast of Nightmares and kills it before the next one.
2. Every second ice comet is going to be used for avoid Nuclear Inferno. Tell the raid to be near it, but not on top of it. Do NOT drag Suen into every second comet immediately as you may melt it during her Inferno. The perfect way to handle this is to let her sit out, and drag her in when Inferno is going to happen within a second or two.
3. The enrage is not hard to deal with. We took an extra 30 seconds without anyone dying and had a DPS dead the entire dusk phase.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Kai » Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:31 pm

Yeah, this was another surprisingly easy boss. Much, much easier then council and probably easier then horridon, although overall enrage is somewhat tight. No clue how galiks' raid survived 30s into the berserk, as soon as she uses her stars ability, the targets get 1 shotted. Even with aura mastery up.

If you 2 tank & 3 heal it (like we did), you want to have a non-dps do all the celestial activations to not have a dps problem. Also we found that it wasn't needed to fully focus on the fire girl. It's more overall enrage, having both up was a little stressful for the healing, but very doable. So we did everything to maximize our overall dps.
We also did not use ox or dragon buffs at all. Just felt like they weren't needed and didn't want to send anyone in there.

had a healer activate crane just when the fight started. The third healer is certainly not needed at that point and again, it felt like we wanted to maximze overall dps and not dps on the fire girl, so might as well use crane here.

A bit tricky part at the start of phase 2 is that sometimes you get two icy comets before the first nuclear and sometimes you just get one. It felt in favor of getting two, but in our 20 overall attempts on the fight, we had several where it didn't spawn. We tried to not use the first comet before the nuclear, but dmg got pretty high.
What we ended up doing was having the current off tank activate the tiger celestial so that it covered the first nuclear and we used the first comet normally to reduce her stacks. Even if the second comet didn't spawn, the nuclear ability is very easily healable with a raid CD like pwd barrier even without standing behind the comet IF the tiger buff covers the whole duration.

Then when P3 starts, the celestials reset and right at the start of p3 one of the tanks activated the 'tiger'. He needs to be standing right in front of it when the phase starts so it's up for the first set of tidal waves. After that a healer activated the crane in between a tidal wave/nuclear and that's it. No really annoying mechanics to deal with. Sometimes people get gibbed when they get focused from p1 adds and the stars or something like that, but otherwise it's just a pretty straight forward fight.

Feels a bit like all this stuff was tuned for ilvl 510 during the PTR/internal testing and now people do Iron Qon and Twins with ilvl 525+ and they are just a bit easy for the later bosses.

edit: wrote that we activate the crane twice in p3. the celestial we use right at the very start of p3 is tiger to deal with the first tidal waves.
Last edited by Kai on Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby timoseewho » Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:42 am

An interesting fight none the less. We ended up using crane off the bat in P1 and towards the end of P3 whenever the designated healer could afford to (which for us, both chicks were still alive). We used the tiger 35s before the first inferno in P2 and 10s before P3 to counter the first wave. We used the ox for the second wave in P3 and serpent anytime we felt we needed it hehe. Thanks for the inputs, definitely helped kill them:D.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Donatist » Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:40 am

The only "hard" part about this fight is the RNG of the first nuclear inferno, will you get that second ice comet or have to survive inferno without it
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Kai » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:29 am

if you time tiger for it, it's no issue at all. healing through a tiger-slowed inferno is very easy as long as people stack up. we just grouped up under her and used a healing CD.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Galiks » Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:14 pm

no such thing as RNG for that. you're not getting a second ice comet due to resetting her ICDs with tiger and not knowing it, or her abilities are delayed by a few seconds due to long flame charge distances. the entire raid should stand closer to the boss the entire time and don't use tiger on Suen alone and I guarantee you will always have a second ice comet.

as an aside, i recommend tiger for the second barrage of comets on the first dark phase so you can have more DPS uptime on Suen as she appears/spins for double the time. can also reveal more dark adds since she's up longer.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Donatist » Wed May 01, 2013 8:02 am

@Galiks thats exactly what we did for Suen, was tiger her on the cast. Honestly killed it so fast that we didnt have time to fully understand the perceived RNG of the comets but that makes sense with what your saying. Damn warlocks think they can stand wherever!
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby timoseewho » Sat May 04, 2013 8:03 am

As much as this fight is getting the criticism for being easy since it's the fight before Lei Shen (and thus should automatically be challenging), I thought that Blizzard tuned it quite well. Even though the fight has boring gaps, times in the fight where there's not much happening, it was a butt clencher at the end for us at least=P.

What kind of annoys me is why Suen has a new ability in P3 and Lu'lin doesn't:(?
Last edited by timoseewho on Wed May 08, 2013 3:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Kai » Sun May 05, 2013 12:18 am

we had two berserk wipes and then focused on overall dps with healers nuking more etc and it was fairly easy going. the whole encounter feels like it was meant to be 2 healed. and then it would be challenging. you'd have to use the dragon and probably the ox properly to aid healers, use CDs on the nuclear etc.
but the way the numbers are tuned, it's just easier to 3 heal. if the girls had 10% more HP, you'd be forced to either 1 tank or 2 heal the whole thing and difficulty level would jump up a fair bit.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Donatist » Sun May 05, 2013 5:42 am

I survived about 15 seconds into berserk with all CDs up to kill it the second time XD Need to not get berserk tho imo next week. Its the only boss that we reach berserk on as well. I just dont see how you could two heal but i know its possible.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Riemu » Wed May 15, 2013 7:53 am

We had about 25 pulls on those two. Currently standing at 5/13 - 522 average.

2 Tanks (prot pally/brm) - 3 Heal (pally, disc, shaman) - 5 DPS

Any tips von positioning in P2 / P3?

I believe we lose too much DPS by moving because comets are further away / people get knocked back by fire lane charge and stuff like that

We also have insanely high stacks in P3 (like 20ish) and keep dying to the random AoE. We also have alot of comets "fizzle" on us. How can that be avoided? Obviously, don't position the boss between 2 comets etc. and only have her in range of one. But it looks like comets get fizzled by Fire Lane, or people standing next to them or sth like hat. Is there another mechanic we don't know about?

Also, are you supposed to put her next to the comet immediatelly (if you dont need it for nuclear)? Or are you supposed to wait for like 5 stacks on her before pulling her near a comet? (heard sth about that in a video). Also, does it matter how near she is? or is it ok as long as the stacks / comet hp get reduced?

I feel if we can figure out that part of the fight, we will have a kill pretty soon - everything else seems stable
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby quotey » Wed May 15, 2013 8:04 am

It doesn't matter how close she is to the comet, so long as she has the debuff. On comet fizzling, I've no idea. We had a comet completely disappear when it was at full health, just after a tidal force last night and had to heal through the inferno.

We just move her next to non inferno comets whenever one spawns. Never waited for stacks or anything like that.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Darielle » Wed May 15, 2013 8:06 pm

Suen does Light of Day on people. Light of DAy has an 8-yard splash and instantly melts comets.

TLDR: Don't stand within 8 yards of comets.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Riemu » Tue May 28, 2013 6:51 am

Hi Guys,

short questions regarding Twins HC. I'm solo tanking boss+beast+add - our Monk tank is handling suen in P1.
I'm trying to optimize my Damage on Lulin in P1.

What's your playstyle here? Glyphs? CD Management?

I'm currently going with AS/FS/BH and FW. My Focus lies on finishing the Beasts fast and then focus on the Boss.
I don't wanna waste any Damage on the Adds and rather put it on the Boss instead. Only cleave I do is HoTR and Consecration on the adds.
Our Raid usually does no Damage on the Adds - 1-2 WL/Shadow for some extra proccs. I'm trying to maximize the Add Uptime so I have higher levels of Vengeance.
There are hard spikes nevertheless when I tank 10+ Adds and the Beast is up. I use Cons/HoTR to eventually kill some, so I don't have 20+ up (which will prolly gib me?)

How are you guys using your cooldowns here? HA at pull for maximized damage? Or at the first beast phase? (will lose one HA then in P1 though).

I'll then take Suen at the beginning of P2 while tanking the remaining 10+ Adds for 2 Stacks. (our offtank couldn't keep aggro anyways, rocking about 250k Vengeance at this point)
After that we switch at 2 stacks, always using DP for the 2nd stack.

I usually don't have trouble surviving. Only two rocky situations. P1 when I have Beast + 10+ adds and P2 when RNG gibs me (1st stack for which I dont have a cd, aoe tick, light of day or stuff like that). Only happened twice in 40 tries though.

Do you have some tips? Anything to improve?


Another thing:

HP oder LH? HP allows me to heal up after barrage (if it heals the right person though.. not sure how HP chooses its heal targets... doesn't look that intelligent to me...)
LH can be used every other Nuklear? Combined with our 2nd Pally, we would have LH for every Nuclear. Probably better?
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Grommash » Tue May 28, 2013 3:10 pm

LH is probably the best for nuclears. Prot Paladin LHs are beast.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Darielle » Wed May 29, 2013 6:28 pm

I usually don't have trouble surviving. Only two rocky situations. P1 when I have Beast + 10+ adds and P2 when RNG gibs me (1st stack for which I dont have a cd, aoe tick, light of day or stuff like that). Only happened twice in 40 tries though.

Do you have some tips? Anything to improve?


I would say the issue at having 10 adds is probably because the clear isn't being done correctly, and if your other tank can't keep threat, he/she probably isn't completely aware of Suen's mechanics in p1.

Suen has a normal aggro table in P1. On the pull, and during Tears, when she's hidden, she continues to take damage and generate threat on people.
EVery time she comes out for Tears, she will pop up at the highest threat target. I'm the person who does it in our raid, so as a Bear on the pull I go up with an FFF and a Thrash before she disappears, I may have to taunt her the first time, but I ensure that I do enough Mangling and other damage spells to ensure that from that point on she will always pop out at me.

Beyond that, your clear has to be focused on targetting the largest cluster. I think the most we've ever had to deal with on a clear has been 5-6? Part of that is because as adds are forming and shadowbolting, a route is being planned. Also, Suen moves faster with speed boosts during Tears. So for me, I use Cat+Dash and so on, hopefully your tank is using the tools that he/she has, and you can also use Stamp Roars as necessary.

Similarly as a result, that tank should have several million threat on Suen when she spawns in Day. She doesn't clear threat; so he should have a prettty significant advantage and not something where you pull it off within 5 seconds. Worst case, have him/her take a hit from Lu'lin before she disappears.

Definitely LH over HP imo. The first Nuclear is basically the hard part of the fight from that point on.

If you use HA after the end of the first Tears, you can use it again in P1 on the 4th Tears/3rd Beast. I know I can do that with Stamp which is also a 2 min cd. You'll probably get a few seconds on the first Beast as well that way.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Donatist » Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:08 am

Try sitting while tanking Lulin too, you get lots of vengeance. I think i get in the neighborhood of around 30%. She can crit for 400k though so try to only sit when you are at 100% or ShoTr is up.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Schroom » Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:01 am

really easy Boss, kileld it on our first night of Progression. the only hard thing about it is the DPS check,. killed it about 20 seconds into enrage. (AD procc + BUbble/taunt until the Boss starts casting ftw.)
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby stevos » Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:02 am

When do you guys use hero/lust?

Icy veins recommends p2, but to me p3 seems better.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Fenrìr » Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:05 pm

We lust at the start of p2 just to push suen lower. P3 lust is just a waste imo because you really should have suen sub 15% at worst.
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