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Patch 5.3 Notes

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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Jabari » Wed May 08, 2013 10:07 am

Flex wrote:Frost's simed potential is so far ahead of what people play it at it is silly. Same with BM. May sim high but its real world performance is often worse than other specs.


Any idea why? I don't have a mage, but I can understand those running low "IRL" - small position adjustments kill spells in progress, and the level 90 talents all look like a total PITA to manage optimally.

I don't get why BM would be substantially lower than sim - it's a relatively easy spec to play, and you can move around all you want and not lose dps. The only thing I can think of would be if the pet is losing contact with the target a lot - maybe Blink Strikes would help with that a bit. *shrug*

Hmm, maybe because BM has a lot of instants and there's more "gaps" between shots on those than chain-casting timed spells?
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Flex » Wed May 08, 2013 10:24 am

Frost and BM have a stigma of low DPS so people don't play them. Selection bias is a very real thing.

Sims have some uses, but real world DPS rankings isn't one of them.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Flex » Wed May 08, 2013 10:43 am

Worldie wrote:Well it's hardly a PvE nerf, since all the pet abilities are used for CC or control and have no effect on damage.


Going through holinka's twitter feed and it is basically PvE abilities have had their cooldowns reduced. CC abilities have had their cooldowns increased. Exotic Beast had the blanket cooldown reduction removed.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby bldavis » Wed May 08, 2013 12:23 pm

Flex wrote:Frost and BM have a stigma of low DPS so people don't play them. Selection bias is a very real thing.

Sims have some uses, but real world DPS rankings isn't one of them.

i dont play it cause i dont like the style, and unless it is leaps and bounds above surv, ill play the spec i like
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Jabari » Wed May 08, 2013 2:34 pm

Flex wrote:Going through holinka's twitter feed and it is basically PvE abilities have had their cooldowns reduced. CC abilities have had their cooldowns increased. Exotic Beast had the blanket cooldown reduction removed.

Well, if that's the case I guess it's ok. Of course, they're going to forget about 25% or so of stuff they should reduce, but whatever. *shrug* Just surprised that the "remove blanket 30%" has been datamined but (for example) a CD change on Spirit Mend hasn't been.

Flex wrote:Frost and BM have a stigma of low DPS so people don't play them. Selection bias is a very real thing.

Not sure exactly how this applies to/answers my question. Are you saying that it's only "bad players" (relatively) that get logged in the "top 100 parses" or whatever?

I also don't know how BM in particular has a "bad spec" stigma right now - it's been top (or equal to SV) single-target hunter spec for quite some time now. *shrug* (Unless it still has the "noob spec" stigma that it did since, oh, release...)
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Nooska » Thu May 09, 2013 1:29 am

Exotic Beasts does NOT apply to basic attacks and autoattacks - everything else though.

As to the difference with simmed BM and actual BM - the sims clearly overvalue haste, and all the high simming results are haste builds - this does not translate into real world gain because most people will still be doing the 6 second minicycle (which is the best for most consistent dps, and with the least amount of risk of failing).

Also, the sim results for BM being thrown around all include complete heroic TF sets...

BM has had quite an amount of people switching to it (of t he imn/maxers that go to 0.01% and don't realize playstyle figures in) - and a lot of those are former MM haste addicts, that want haste to be the absolute best stat at all costs, while being used to a 10 second cycle with loads more room to use and actual priorty system (there just isn't room in the BM cycle to use actual priority, its a priority subset that gets used at specific points in the cycle)
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Archeth » Thu May 09, 2013 3:05 am

Jabari wrote:
Flex wrote:Frost and BM have a stigma of low DPS so people don't play them. Selection bias is a very real thing.

Not sure exactly how this applies to/answers my question. Are you saying that it's only "bad players" (relatively) that get logged in the "top 100 parses" or whatever?

Not only, but mostly. The selection bias is that there's no equal amount of skilled, competitive players parsing all three specs. Most top hunters choose to play SV/MM because they're slightly ahead in sims or because BM is "known" to be the low DPS options or whatever.

So even if BM might perform close to SV/MM in theory, the parses won't show that because people still playing BM are less competitive/geared/skilled players, and the gap will appear larger than it really is. And then even fewer hunters will play BM because according to parses, BM sucks.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby KysenMurrin » Thu May 09, 2013 4:47 am

Does Frost still have a higher skill cap than the other Mage specs? It certainly seemed that way in Cataclysm, more effort for less reward.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Worldie » Thu May 09, 2013 5:01 am

Don't think so, it's very easy to play right now. Spam 1 button, press button 2 and 3 when they light up, repeat.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby KysenMurrin » Thu May 09, 2013 5:22 am

You don't have to manage your FoF charges, bank one at all times for Brain Freeze procs, weave in Water Elemental's Freeze on cooldown without wasting charges? And what about Frost Bomb?
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby halabar » Thu May 09, 2013 8:21 am

Will be interesting to see the ilvl jump on various toons once the patch hits and we have the much cheaper valor upgrading. The annoyance here for guilds like mine is that the better people will get a lot better quickly, being able to upgrade 8 items 8 ilvls that first week, and others will have no improvement at all...

Need to get off my butt and start capping my spriest again so she's at 3000 when the patch hits.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Chunes » Thu May 09, 2013 9:08 am

So, hala, or anyone else who cares to respond, what's the tl;dr for your weekly grind?

What do you do to cap your various points, what points do you cap, then what do you do with the points when you have them?

Also, how do the lesser charms/runes whatever fit into it all?

I am starting to get the itch to get my DK some pve gear, but I'm pretty clueless as to what the most efficient method is to do so.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Nooska » Thu May 09, 2013 9:37 am

Archeth wrote:
Jabari wrote:
Flex wrote:Frost and BM have a stigma of low DPS so people don't play them. Selection bias is a very real thing.

Not sure exactly how this applies to/answers my question. Are you saying that it's only "bad players" (relatively) that get logged in the "top 100 parses" or whatever?

Not only, but mostly. The selection bias is that there's no equal amount of skilled, competitive players parsing all three specs. Most top hunters choose to play SV/MM because they're slightly ahead in sims or because BM is "known" to be the low DPS options or whatever.

So even if BM might perform close to SV/MM in theory, the parses won't show that because people still playing BM are less competitive/geared/skilled players, and the gap will appear larger than it really is. And then even fewer hunters will play BM because according to parses, BM sucks.

This might have been true if BM actually simmed lower than SV7MM, fact is BM has simmed (and performed) as top spec for all of MoP, excluding heavy aoe fights (or trash) where SV could deliver a beat down due to instant SrS damage.

The actual issue for BM is pet pathing (nothing to do with skills) and pet unfriendly fights (despite designing 1 or more class specs that are heavily pet dependant they stilld esignfights where pets are a liability).
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Bellanka » Thu May 09, 2013 10:22 am

Chunes wrote:So, hala, or anyone else who cares to respond, what's the tl;dr for your weekly grind?

What do you do to cap your various points, what points do you cap, then what do you do with the points when you have them?

Also, how do the lesser charms/runes whatever fit into it all?

I am starting to get the itch to get my DK some pve gear, but I'm pretty clueless as to what the most efficient method is to do so.


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Sunday: Run ToT LFR and do Weekly Champions of Thunder Quest (and Tomes from Rares!) to cap Valor on alt. 720 Valor because of 50% buff from capping main. Run heroics/Scenarios while waiting for Queues if there's a wait. Second cap.

Both toons still sitting on a few hundred Lesser Charms, so I don't have to worry about that right away. I'll likely do some pet battles here and there while traveling just to keep them trickling in, depending on how many charms level 90+s will drop in the open world. Otherwise I'll find a good farming spot and AoE farm with guildies.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Chunes » Thu May 09, 2013 10:25 am

Thanks Bellanka!
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