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Fitness and being Healthy

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Re: Fitness and being Healthy

Postby Cogglamp » Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:47 pm

I think you're missing the point that her treadmill workout is done on a max incline Fivelives. Nobody is going to be setting land speed records on an incline run.
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Re: Fitness and being Healthy

Postby katraya » Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:28 am

Cogglamp wrote:I think you're missing the point that her treadmill workout is done on a max incline Fivelives. Nobody is going to be setting land speed records on an incline run.


An incline and the point that I am not trying to run. As I explained higher up I have joint issues and klutziness that keep me from running on the treadmill.

ETA: I am thinking about trying to run, if we have a track. But I was trying to give examples of what I had been doing.
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Re: Fitness and being Healthy

Postby Fivelives » Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:05 am

I said target, not "GO DO THIS RIGHT NOW" - nobody's going to cut their run times literally in half without a buildup to that. Figured that was obvious.

And I know plenty of people (both male and female) who've gone from completely sedentary to a 7.5 minute mile in a matter of weeks. Granted, that was with drill sergeants "motivating" them, but still. It can be done.

As far as being clumsy is concerned, use the handrails. If you have problems with keeping a steady pace on a treadmill, consider finding one that's not powered and isn't going to force the pace on you; or run on a track or trail until you get used to keeping a steady pace. That's the most likely culprit there - if you slow down on a treadmill that's going at a fixed speed, it's going to take your feet out from under you or dump you unceremoniously off the back end.

Incline or no incline, a slow walking pace is going to plateau fairly quickly and will stop being a benefit. What you're doing is definitely good for you, but if you want to continue then you have to push it. No effective workout is ever easy.
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Re: Fitness and being Healthy

Postby Nooska » Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:00 am

Still missing the "I have joint issues" part and the "on an incline" part.

I have joint issues too and shouldn't even be walking as exercise (I have chondromalacia patellae) - but I too walk on an incline (usually around 11% at a walking pace of around 6.5 km/h - or 4 mph). 4 mph is not a slow walking pace - the CDC sets "brisk pace" at 3 mph or 5 km/h, and add an incline and it becomes an intense and brisk walk.

Granted you will level out at all levels of intensity if you just stay at that level and "get used to it".
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Re: Fitness and being Healthy

Postby Fivelives » Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:32 pm

Average walking speed is around 3.5mph. 4mph is not brisk, it's average. My personal average is 6mph (9-10 minute mile, measured the last time I walked to the gas station to buy cigarettes. Ironic, I know) including the steep hill I live on here. My fitness level is pretty high though, so YMMV.

Joint issues respond pretty well to exercise. Nothing will ever get rid of the pain completely, but exercise will reduce it. Pretty sure it has something to do with dropping weight and firming up the small muscles that help stabilize the joints. Either way, joint issues are no excuse for not exercising and pushing yourself. The "on an incline" part doesn't matter much if you're hitting a plateau and not pushing yourself farther.

If you absolutely, positively can't run, then don't try. Use an elliptical machine or bike, or ideally, find a pool and swim laps. If you have a pool but can't swim, then walk back and forth in water that's at least waist deep. If you really want to get better, there are ways. There are always ways.

I have a coworker who suffers from rheumatoid arthritis. Her hands and feet, mostly, but also her knees. She runs in the Phoenix marathon every year despite that, and her time this year? Just over 4 hours. She's also 55 years old. Joint pain is no excuse, if a 55 year old woman with RA can finish a marathon ahead of younger, healthier people (men and women both) then you can work your way up to a jog and improve your health from wherever you're at now. You may never set a world speed record, but you can see improvement.
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Re: Fitness and being Healthy

Postby Nikachelle » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:55 pm

Definitely do not agree that 4 mph is considered an average walking pace.
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Re: Fitness and being Healthy

Postby Skye1013 » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:08 pm

Guess that would ultimately depend on your stride... I feel comfortable at around a 3.7mph pace. Much higher than that and I have to resort to a light jog.
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Re: Fitness and being Healthy

Postby Nooska » Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:42 am

Excersise does not alleviate joint pain coming from "defective" joints.
Arthritis is another beast entirely, and cannot be compared to defective joints in that regard - athritic joints are not "defective", they are in a state of "disrepair", and can be repaired by useage which increases the "lubrication" of the joint. Arthritis is primarily a state of inflammation.

A gear does not get repaired from use if it is missing one or more teeth, but if its just stuck, it can get going by being lubricated and used, while it may be "painful" to the gear to get unstuck, once thats done, its all downhill.
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Re: Fitness and being Healthy

Postby Fivelives » Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:10 am

Exercise does alleviate joint pain coming from "defective" joints. Diet and exercise is pretty much the closest thing we have to an all-natural panacea. There's a huge weight of evidence for it, and for any joint condition you can think of there are any number of studies done showing the benefits of exercise for the affected joint.

Either way, I rather imagine continuing this discussion is going to be the equivalent of beating my head against a brick wall. So I'm exiting now.

As far as walking pace is concerned. (5280ft/15min) = 352fpm. (352/60)=.391~fps.

So you're going to tell me that you consider a brisk walk to be anything faster than 4.69 inches per second? The average step length of a human being is 31", so you're taking roughly one step every 6.6 seconds and consider that a brisk walk?

... There's something wrong with that picture.
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Re: Fitness and being Healthy

Postby Rhiannon » Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:29 am

There is indeed something wrong with that picture.

352/60 = 5.9 feet per second.
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Re: Fitness and being Healthy

Postby Shoju » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:33 pm

Nooska wrote:Excersise does not alleviate joint pain coming from "defective" joints.
Arthritis is another beast entirely, and cannot be compared to defective joints in that regard - athritic joints are not "defective", they are in a state of "disrepair", and can be repaired by useage which increases the "lubrication" of the joint. Arthritis is primarily a state of inflammation.

A gear does not get repaired from use if it is missing one or more teeth, but if its just stuck, it can get going by being lubricated and used, while it may be "painful" to the gear to get unstuck, once thats done, its all downhill.


As someone else with bad knees, I can attest that some exercise is just brutal on me. It doesn't help that I'm still trying to lose a ton of weight, but with 3 arthroscopic procedures per knee to clean out junk from the joint, I take what I can, when I can.

I'm hoping that baseball season will help me ease into losing more, and alleviating the stress on my already bad knees.
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Re: Fitness and being Healthy

Postby Fridmarr » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:57 pm

Fivelives wrote:Exercise does alleviate joint pain coming from "defective" joints. Diet and exercise is pretty much the closest thing we have to an all-natural panacea. There's a huge weight of evidence for it, and for any joint condition you can think of there are any number of studies done showing the benefits of exercise for the affected joint.

Either way, I rather imagine continuing this discussion is going to be the equivalent of beating my head against a brick wall. So I'm exiting now.

As far as walking pace is concerned. (5280ft/15min) = 352fpm. (352/60)=.391~fps.

So you're going to tell me that you consider a brisk walk to be anything faster than 4.69 inches per second? The average step length of a human being is 31", so you're taking roughly one step every 6.6 seconds and consider that a brisk walk?

... There's something wrong with that picture.

Along with the math mistake there, 31 inches is the average stride for a man, not human beings. Stride length is generally a function of height, so women have a smaller average stride of about 26" inches. I believe that ends up being just about 3 (2.7) steps per second at a 15 minute mile pace.

That aside, as far as injuries and joint problems and exercise it really depends. Strengthening the supporting muscles/ligaments/tendons etc around joints can often help with pain and it's really great at preventing injuries in the first place, but depending on the ailment exercise can also irritate and inflame a problem.

Obviously, if you have joint issues, it's probably worth seeking professional advice before undertaking a significant change in exercise.
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Re: Fitness and being Healthy

Postby Nooska » Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:19 am

And just to finish up the defective joint argument - I'll take the word of the orthopedic surgeon that has examined my knees over someone on a forum painting in broad strokes and comparing athritis to any joint pain.

I might add that for many people injuries to the ligaments will also feel like pains from the joint unless they know better, and excercise will most certainly not help the problem there.
In fact exercise is good in moderate amounts for the general health, however exercise in non-moderate amounts is probably one of the most common causes of injuries and you need to not exercise so much as to induce excessive wear on the body - there is a reason manual labourers have a lower life expectancy than academics, despite getting generally more "exercise" - and its not all about income.
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Re: Fitness and being Healthy

Postby Fivelives » Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:57 am

Yeah, I herped so hard I derped on that division, my bad >.<

The step length is the one I found on a reputable source for quick and (very) dirty napkin math - men average 33-34" and women average 26-27" for an overall average of right around 31". I can try and find it again if you want to compare.

Manual laborers have a lower life expectancy than academics for a multitude of reasons, not just exercise or income. I highly doubt it has anything to do with exercise, for that matter. Off the top of my head: diet, education, dangerous work environments (heavy equipment is far more dangerous to work around than a desk with a computer), sleeping habits, etc. If you're trying to say that exercise beyond "oh, I think I'm going to park at the end of the row and walk into the store instead of parking right up front" is bad for you, then this probably isn't a thread you should be hanging around in, quite frankly.

Rheumatoid arthritis is an autoimmune disease along the lines of Lupus etc that affects joints and bones in addition to internal organs. It has a lot more in common than you think with chondromalacia patella. CP is soft cartilage in the knee. RA attacks cartilage, basically eating it whole. It's an entirely different beast than standard osteoarthritis, so the comparison is more valid than you think.

"Many people" can't tell the difference between a sharp stabbing pain that radiates outward in pulses from a distinct point of injury, and a dull, throbbing, burning ache deep in the joint that can't be directly pinpointed to a single spot? I've never once come across anyone who can't differentiate between types of pain, no matter how severe it is or where it is. And if you're hurting before you start your workout routine, it's fairly obvious that the workout isn't what caused it. If you get injured during your workout, then it's also fairly obvious that the workout contributed to it in some fashion.

The point I've been trying to stress since the beginning of this whole thing is that "moderate" does not mean doing the same intensity exercise over and over. The intensity has to continue to increase in order for benefits to be maintained. Essentially, what was moderate last week isn't going to be moderate today. Use whatever excuse you want to justify not pushing yourself, but then don't complain about not seeing any results if you do. It's true that any activity is better than no activity, but if you're trying to lose weight and get healthier then push through your plateaus.
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Re: Fitness and being Healthy

Postby Mcduffie » Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:03 pm

Hey guys! Just getting back into working out, was wondering if anyone could give me any tips on some workout plans they're doing?
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