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Random musing: 4th spec for all in next expac?

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Random musing: 4th spec for all in next expac?

Postby Paxen » Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:41 am

This isn't a rumour, or even speculation about what Blizz is going to do for the next expac. It's just some random thoughts about what I think could be cool.

Druids kinda opened the door for this with the Guardian spec. I like switching playstyles a lot, so I think a fourth specialization for all (or at least many) classes would be great. More variety without leveling even more characters to max level! Anyway, I've been thinking about what kind of specs could be added for a couple of days now, I just want to write it down (and maybe see if anybody bites with even better ideas).

Here's a list of the new specs I've though of. First up are the easy ones, specs that either exist or have existed in the game (glyphs, undersupported options in the old talent trees, or even just as an obvious hole in the background).

Shaman: Guardian (tank). I like tanking, and my shaman was my main when I raided every week. Of course I'm amongst the ones who want a shaman tanking spec!
Warlock: Demon Hunter (tank). Make the glyph into a full-blown spec. My 'lock was my first character to enter Outland, so of course I'd love the option to tank with her!
Priest: Smite dps spec. Kinda in the game with Atonement, but could be cool to make it into a full-blown dps spec. Let priests have an alternative if they don't want to go dot-tastic. Smite as main nuke, but maybe a a debuff that deals damage when the target enemy attacks something? Theme it around censure and rebuke.
Monk: Crane spec (dps). Int-based caster, using Cracklig Jade Lightning as signature spell. Perhaps weaving in other damage abilities like how Soothing Mist interacts with Surging and Enveloping Mist?

Others not as obvious:

Warrior: Another tank spec (for symmetry with priest). Based on mitigating damage by regeneration effects and sheer bloody-mindedness, instead of blocking with a shield. Kinda like a tanking Fury Warrior (more below).

Hunter: The "ranger" archetype is mostly represented by the three existing specs: Animal handler, marksman, outdoorsman. Maybe a healer spec? Not sold on it, but going back to Aragorn he did have healing powers.
Rogue: If hunters can be healers, rogues could be tanks. Would have to be an avoidance tank (like Brewmasters), so it would need a less-obvious way to tank to cover up the weakness of avoidance :) Like hunters, rogues are pretty well covered already (swashbuckler, poisoner, sneak). Is there another rogueish archetype that could be used?

The ones I'm really lost on:

Mage: Umm, another element spec? Frost is already the pet spec. Can't really say that I got any ideas for what element though. Water Mage? Wind Mage? Eh.
Death Knight: Split Unholy into a pet (necromancer) spec and a disease spec? Um.
Paladin: Really lost here. The Holy Avenger, the Blessed Protector, the divine healer...can't really see any missing archetypes.


The Warrior spec: For some reason I really like this idea, so here's some more about it:

What's the schtick: He's just too angry to die. Based on concepts seen in D&D over the years, like the barbarian that dumps armor and relies on a good Con score ("my hit points are my armor"), the Battlerager Fighter from D&D 4e (tank that doesn't use shield, instead relying on excessive amounts of Temp hit points) or the Frenzied Berserker that plain just won't die as long as he's raging (or discern friend from foe for that matter).

Equipment: Dual-wielding instead of sword and board.
Shield replacement: I think Stagger would be awesome for a warrior. Probably less baseline stagger than a Monk (he's still wearing plate armour even if he doesn't have a shield).
Active Mitigation: Like a prot warrior he'd have two AM abilities: The first one would increase stagger, like Shuffle does. The second one would not be a Purifying Brew analogue, but would instead be a self-heal, like Enraged Regeneration (amount based on either rage used, percentage of health or attack power). Mastery would increase both effects. The regen effect could be added to the stagger dot, so that they tick at the same time. More stagger than regen: Dot. Less stagger than regen: Hot.

A bonus would be that warriors would have an alternative when they've raided for three months without an upgrade for their crafted shield. Maybe they could even be convinced to pass on shields in favor of paladins!

Just some random ideas. Anybody else think a fourth spec would be grand? Any good ideas for Paladins?
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Re: Random musing: 4th spec for all in next expac?

Postby culhag » Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:11 am

No.

For druids it was really just formalizing the 4 roles they've had since vanilla, which were already supported before the addition of their fourth spec.
Some other classes had unusual specs that some adventurous players tried (shaman tanks, shockadins...) but they were never supported, and usually very inefficient compared to the real specs for that role.

But really the biggest argument is that Blizzard already has enough work with 34 specs to balance.
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Re: Random musing: 4th spec for all in next expac?

Postby Worldie » Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:29 am

Also, just imagine the extreme amount of work they'd have to do to introduce 10 new specs and balance them.
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Re: Random musing: 4th spec for all in next expac?

Postby Fetzie » Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:48 am

Worldie wrote:Also, just imagine the extreme amount of work they'd have to do to introduce 10 new specs and balance them.

They have issues adding three new specs to the game and balancing them (Deathknights in WotLK, Monks in MoP), I don't think they'll add 10 at once.
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Re: Random musing: 4th spec for all in next expac?

Postby Bellanka » Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:52 am

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Re: Random musing: 4th spec for all in next expac?

Postby halabar » Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:53 am

Druid is the only one that needs it.

MM hunters should be the "petless" "ranger" spec.
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Re: Random musing: 4th spec for all in next expac?

Postby Fenrìr » Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:59 am

Isn't this a repost from somewhere else? O.o thought it was a necro at first until I saw the dates.
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Re: Random musing: 4th spec for all in next expac?

Postby Paxen » Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:55 pm

You're all boring. :P

I do see that it would a sizable amount of work to the class design team. Not as much as three full new classes (which you would be if a new class counts as 3 specs and no more), but still some amount. I think that it would be worth it to me (compared to what we'd lose of other stuff), but it looks like I'm in a small minority that would see any value in it.

Fenrìr wrote:Isn't this a repost from somewhere else? O.o thought it was a necro at first until I saw the dates.


No, I wrote this down today. Going from shaman tanks and 4 druid specs to a fourth spec for everybody isn't a huge leap, so lots of people have probably already thought of it.

I would have thought my idea for the second warrior tank spec was new, but as it doesn't have any radical concepts...perhaps not?
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Re: Random musing: 4th spec for all in next expac?

Postby Amirya » Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:55 pm

Well, no one has a second tank spec of any class, so how exactly would a 2nd warrior tank work? 2h = DK; sword/board = paladin, warrior; staff = druid/monk. Dual wielding shields is a funny thought, but not serious.

If you're going to make a 2nd tank spec, it needs to be unique enough - and viable enough - to be worth spending the manpower.
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Re: Random musing: 4th spec for all in next expac?

Postby bldavis » Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:22 pm

lets see...this will prob be a wall o' text
since this is pure nonsense and fun, who cares how much work it would be? this is just for fun not what we think WILL be in the game

druids - have 4 specs already
DKs - possible necromantic spellcaster ranged that uses healadin gear? (that way you have the tank, the fast striking melee in DWfrost, the slow hard hitting melee of 2hdfrost, and the pet class in UH)
hunter - i like the idea of MM being a petless spec - like grimoire of sacrifice locks. you would have a healer that shots darts and such (thus keeping with the ranged weapons) and just have it convert the agil on the ranged weapons to healing power. that would give you the animal tamer, the survivalist, the pure ranger, and the support or otoh, you could make a BM tank spec
Mage - i would say a time warping based healer for their 4th..not real sure on this one
Monk - ranged int dps spec, possible hybrid ala fist weaving or atonement, but more focus on dps than healing (damage done still helps heal but you are just there as a suppliment instead of a true healer replacement)
Rogue - honestly i gotta say some sort of tank, or possibly a ranged spec using ranged weapons, so you could have the swashbucker, the brawler, the assassin, and the spy..the only issue with rogue tanks would be how to make sure they arent spiky as all hell and just mana sponges
Priest - def gotta say a light based dps spec. you can have shadow if you want dots, light if you want nukes like smite
Shaman - easy - tanks. they can already use shields and have rockbiter weapon, so just have a conversion for str to agil for tank shamans, and they still use agil mail.
Paladin]/b] - ranged dps spec focusing around judgement, exorsism, and holy shock using spell plate - possible 2/3 dps, 1/3 healer like hte ranged monk
[b]Warlock
- enhanced demon form tank. you dont have a pet, you just are a demon yourself. we already have bears that never see their gear so this would just be another form shifting tank, with more ranged abilities which would give you the tank, the pet focus (demo) the dot focus (afflic) and the nuke focus (destro)
Warrior - we already have the barbarian-esque in fury, but what about a rage fueled berserker with mechanics like a blood dk. take damage = vengence and rage. vengence = harder hitting self heal ability = more self healing. might take more damage overall vs a sword&board warrior, but the self heals through things like enraged regen, bloodthirst, and such would help offset it.

yes i just restated some of the ideas from the OP, but they are ones i agree with.
as for the dual tank specs - have it be a different playstyle compared to the other tank spec of the class, and different mechanics. think disc vs holy priests. they are different mechanics and playstyles yet cover the same role
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Re: Random musing: 4th spec for all in next expac?

Postby Paxen » Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:35 pm

Amirya wrote:Well, no one has a second tank spec of any class, so how exactly would a 2nd warrior tank work? 2h = DK; sword/board = paladin, warrior; staff = druid/monk. Dual wielding shields is a funny thought, but not serious.

If you're going to make a 2nd tank spec, it needs to be unique enough - and viable enough - to be worth spending the manpower.


I did write some thoughts about a second warrior tank spec in the OP?
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Re: Random musing: 4th spec for all in next expac?

Postby KysenMurrin » Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:56 pm

Problem with petless Hunter specs is you have to actually take away the ability to summon pets from the spec. Hunters get a pet the moment they create their character, it's a defining feature, you'd have to revert the class back to gaining pets at a higher level to seperate it out.

Avoidance tanking is virtually unbalanceable alongside other tank designs, so it would be hard to add a Rogue tank.

I'd be interested to see what could be done with Warlock or Shaman tanking, since they kinda fit the existing flavour, but I can't see Blizzard doing it. Other classes I can't see getting new specs at all, as they'd mostly duplicate existing roles.
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Re: Random musing: 4th spec for all in next expac?

Postby Paxen » Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:12 pm

bldavis wrote:lets see...this will prob be a wall o' text
since this is pure nonsense and fun, who cares how much work it would be? this is just for fun not what we think WILL be in the game


Now we're talking!

DKs - possible necromantic spellcaster ranged that uses healadin gear? (that way you have the tank, the fast striking melee in DWfrost, the slow hard hitting melee of 2hdfrost, and the pet class in UH)


I really like this one. The Death Knights from warcraft 2 were mostly ranged with Death Coil as their signature attack, so it even has a history. Bonus points for finding a new use for int plate.

hunter - i like the idea of MM being a petless spec - like grimoire of sacrifice locks. you would have a healer that shots darts and such (thus keeping with the ranged weapons) and just have it convert the agil on the ranged weapons to healing power. that would give you the animal tamer, the survivalist, the pure ranger, and the support or otoh, you could make a BM tank spec


Petless for MM sounds great to me. The devs have said that GrimSac was never intended to make a petless warlock, but who cares about that in this thread? BM as tank could work, but I'm not really sold on a boar as a main tank. Support/heal hunter sounds better to me.

Monk - ranged int dps spec, possible hybrid ala fist weaving or atonement, but more focus on dps than healing (damage done still helps heal but you are just there as a suppliment instead of a true healer replacement)


Not a bad idea. I think it needs to be the mirror to fistweaving/atonement, though - an option to go about 50/50 dps/heals, but also having the option to go 100% dps.

Rogue - honestly i gotta say some sort of tank, or possibly a ranged spec using ranged weapons, so you could have the swashbucker, the brawler, the assassin, and the spy..the only issue with rogue tanks would be how to make sure they arent spiky as all hell and just mana sponges


Brawler-tank seems like a great archetype. Would it be too close to a Brewmaster? Needs something in addition to Dodge, but BrMs are supposedly the "parry tank" and they got an excellent EH-ability in Stagger.

KysenMurrin wrote:Avoidance tanking is virtually unbalanceable alongside other tank designs, so it would be hard to add a Rogue tank.


It would be a Dodge tank the way Brewmasters are Parry tanks. Ie, just on the surface.

Priest - def gotta say a light based dps spec. you can have shadow if you want dots, light if you want nukes like smite


I think this would be a real benefit - priests that go dps aren't shoehorned into dot dps, but can choose based on preference (and possibly the fight).

[b]Paladin]/b] - ranged dps spec focusing around judgement, exorsism, and holy shock using spell plate - possible 2/3 dps, 1/3 healer like hte ranged monk


Shockadin, eh? Not a bad archetype, but how much would it really differ from a Smiting Priest? (Then again, there's not much difference thematically between a Destro Lock and a Fire Mage.)
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Re: Random musing: 4th spec for all in next expac?

Postby Koatanga » Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:20 pm

Priests already have a reasonably good Holy DPS build. We have our priest run it for a few fights because it's not much drop from her shadow damage, and she can proper heal for burst damage (but not for long, because the gear set for it has only enough spirit to meet hit cap).
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Re: Random musing: 4th spec for all in next expac?

Postby Amirya » Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:24 pm

Paxen wrote:I did write some thoughts about a second warrior tank spec in the OP?

Somehow to me, it reads like a DK. Maybe I missed something, though.
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