Question for Theck (et all)

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Question for Theck (et all)

Postby Cragwell » Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:47 pm

Or the powers that be. I am looking at the new tier bonuses and while we all pretty much agree they are kind of ho-hum, I am starting to wonder if they are so inconsequential as to be avoided altogether. Specifically in 10 man raids where tank DPS is such a factor and it seems Control/Haste is the best move. However, I know 25 man prot paladins are also staying away from the avoidance stats when they have the chance.

Now obviously in the tier options the Shoulder and Helm are good enough to use. So the WoG granting block chance can't be a bad bonus to obtain.

Looking at the other three pieces though, none of them are particularly attractive and the Divine Protection granting holy power is fairly underwhelming. If you know you are taking a big spike of damage I suppose its nice for a quick shot of HoPo, but if you are taking that kind of chunky damage in a 10 second period, you should be using other CDs to reduce that as much as you can. Realistically, if you are taking over 100% damage to your health pool in 10 seconds that is probably a GoAK, AD or HA kind of moment. Activating any of those definitely harms the 4 piece HoPo return.

Understand that I am not pointing to the damage taken as 100% of your health pool over 10 seconds. That probably happens quite often. With Sacred Shield and other absorbs you will often take damage in excess of your health pool, without ever really dipping below 40% of your health total in a ten second period. If you are in a situation like that, you probably should have used a CD to mitigate it.

The four piece specifically says 20% of your health taken as damage. I am presuming (perhaps incorrectly) that this means you have to take that damage to your actual health pool to see the HoPo gains. If I am wrong about that, then ignore the post completely because its obvious that the tier bonus is worth taking the sub-standard pieces of our set.

If I am correct in how I am looking at it, then the question must be asked, why bother for the four piece bonus when I have to take over 2000 points of itemization as avoidance? Would I not prefer to ditch the bonus and go for pieces that have mastery/haste/hit/exp?

I will admit this is a somewhat fuzzy question considering that it presumes a tank using their damage reduction CDs properly and it also may be a matter of personal preference. Perhaps theorycraft can't actually answer the question absolutely.

I just thought it was an interesting question to ask...

P.S. As another aside, the higher your health goes the less the benefit. So as your gear gets better the bonus gets worse. Its kind of a strange bonus as a four piece and I find it very disappointing.
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Re: Question for Theck (et all)

Postby fuzzygeek » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:37 pm

I personally will not be taking any tier tokens until they are going to rot, and even then I'm not certain that I would utilize the pieces, especially if I have better itemized side grades or thunderforged items for those slots. The bonuses just aren't that attractive in my eyes, especially in 10s.
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Re: Question for Theck (et all)

Postby Worldie » Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:33 pm

I can tell you our prot paladin is also convinced the tier is garbage and is actually sporting the Ret tier due to the juicy haste on it.
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Re: Question for Theck (et all)

Postby fuzzygeek » Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:04 pm

Would definitely wear that ret chest. No, I'm not slobbering.
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Re: Question for Theck (et all)

Postby theckhd » Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:31 pm

As a 10-man raider, it's safe to ignore the tier bonuses. The 2-piece isn't bad if you pick two well-itemized pieces, but the 4-piece is likely to be garbage on 10N. I think it might be interesting on 25H, but it's hard to say whether it'll be enough to overcome a really well-itemized (and thunderforged) off-set piece.
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Re: Question for Theck (et all)

Postby Slootbag » Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:47 am

Fwiw I quite enjoy the 4p bonus on 25H, it allows for some pretty nifty play styles at times and a reasonable boost in DPS/mitigation if played well. Just my 2 cents.

I do agree it will be garbage in anything less than 25N hard-hitters.
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Re: Question for Theck (et all)

Postby Fetzie » Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:34 pm

Probably better off filling some DPS and healer 4sets before thinking about the 4set though.
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Re: Question for Theck (et all)

Postby Rokh » Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:11 pm

I have a question for another paladin with a T name...or anyone for that matter.

I was following the world first ToT stuff and often snooped the armory for what gear choices people were taking etc..

I noticed Treck was using the lvl 90 talent ES.

Myself being 3/4th through heroic ToT I have yet to find a fight I would use that on, maybe I am not seeing it in the correct light. Is this better than i thought it was? does anyone else like it and what do you use it for? examples would be cool
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Re: Question for Theck (et all)

Postby Fetzie » Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:58 pm

IIRC Execution Sentence is higher single-target dps, but lacks the raid utility of the Light's Hammer group healing.
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Re: Question for Theck (et all)

Postby theckhd » Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:25 am

ES is definitely the single-target DPS skill of choice. They may have just been hitting a tough enrage.
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Re: Question for Theck (et all)

Postby Schroom » Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:14 pm

I guess that is the same reason I see some world top guild tankpaladins sue the DPS legendary meta with crit and naturedamage procc?
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Re: Question for Theck (et all)

Postby Fetzie » Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:59 am

Schroom wrote:I guess that is the same reason I see some world top guild tankpaladins sue the DPS legendary meta with crit and naturedamage procc?

Apparently Ra'den is primarily an absolutely massive DPS check, so every little bit of extra damage is going to help kill the boss.
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Re: Question for Theck (et all)

Postby daishan » Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:04 am

My Dk co tank was in dps gear for a normal mode last night and the legendary dps meta was 6% of his dps, so assuming it scales with the AP from veng that's a lot of extra dps.
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Re: Question for Theck (et all)

Postby Bellanka » Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:33 am

I'm still waiting on gloves to finish off my four piece, but it's a set I'll primarily use for solo tanking heroic bosses like Horridon, Megaera, Tortos, Durumu and Qon. Horridon alone is a HUGE spike of damage when enraged, so the added HoPo will allow for more frequent SoTR and ease the damage spikes.

Can anyone confirm if the 20% is before or after mitigation? If it's after, the usefulness will be pretty weak and the situational usefulness likely won't overtake the stat gains from offset pieces, but if it takes into account what the hit would have been before SoTR or Glyphed DPs 20% then I can see it as a cooldown somewhat akin to HA.
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Re: Question for Theck (et all)

Postby Promdates » Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:29 am

I'm pretty sure it's before mitigation/absorbs.
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