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[10H] Tortos

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Re: [10H] Tortos

Postby Bemxuu » Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:47 pm

Kiting turtles is not an easy task, but nothing is impossible for heroic class!
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Re: [10H] Tortos

Postby Galiks » Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:02 pm

The only reason you'd have trouble solo tanking is you're not timing SoTR with Snapping Bites/Quake Stomp and not popping heavy defensive CDs upon the landing of the bats - thus they are draining you and not dying. When bats land, regardless of you being full HP with full crystal shell, you should have a heavy CD used immediately such as Holy Avenger for the first wave, GoAK for the second, DP/AD for the third, etc. Additionally, healers should bomb you during the landing and you should utilize DPS stuns such as remorseless winter and binding shot to your advantage. Two DPS (i.e. DK + hunter) plus your own DPS should wipe them out within 10 seconds at the most.

If you're kiting the bats around, you're unnecessarily complicating things.
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Re: [10H] Tortos

Postby Bemxuu » Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:04 am

If you take Unbreakable Spirit, you'll have your DP up for each wave of bats, which is huge if you have your 4t15. I also liked backing my AD up with something else, so I requested external cooldowns - I had HoSac. Also, I wouldn't stun them unless something is horribly wrong - it makes their swing timers synchronize.

Despite what some people think about solo tanking it, it does not require an extra healer instead of second tank/kiter. As a matter of fact, you're fine with just two, if they can heal the tank effectively as your Battle Insight healing spikes right when it's necessary - close to the stomp (topping off the shield before it with bats vengeance and rapidly degrading post stomp, but still doing good ~100k hps with 30-40k hps healing the raid). If you are solotanking it as someone else, you might consider taking a 3rd healer, though ; ) But it is totally doable with other tanks like monk or druid provided they have Delicate Vial.

And - yes - make good use of your Light's Hammer.
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Re: [10H] Tortos

Postby Schroom » Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:13 am

Bemxuu wrote:If you take Unbreakable Spirit, you'll have your DP up for each wave of bats,


I'm kind of forced to use double BoP in order to put it on a healer when the stomp occurs.

Bemxuu wrote: which is huge if you have your 4t15.
:'( gief! I just go my first piece.... hardmode raiding is fun with some < 480 items. but fortunatly they are getting less and less.

Bemxuu wrote:I also liked backing my AD up with something else, so I requested external cooldowns
I usualy use stoneform with AD. so 1) wings and HA + DP 2) GoAk + barkskin 3) AD + Stoneform + DP 4) both trinkets + HoSac 5) = 1) I guess that should be right if I remember well. (got the real notes at home next to my PC)

Bemxuu wrote:I wouldn't stun them unless something is horribly wrong - it makes their swing timers synchronize.
I was afraid of that aswell, but if they get stunned kite them from the left to right and from the right to the left for a few seconds. as some bats reach you before others do they swing timers get spread out again.


Bemxuu wrote:And - yes - make good use of your Light's Hammer.
I got a loot of tips pleading for holy prism in the fight, and It would make sense. when adds spawn use HoPr on yourself. now your shield is full and you got snappaggro of all the bats, low cooldown as well and useable if you have to move or kite for a short while.

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Re: [10H] Tortos

Postby Bemxuu » Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:26 am

Schroom wrote: I'm kind of forced to use double BoP in order to put it on a healer when the stomp occurs.

If the bats don't die before the stomp, you'll have to give up solo tanking - it will drop the shield and that's a hopeless case if it drops while the bats are alive.
Schroom wrote: I usualy use stoneform with AD. so 1) wings and HA + DP 2) GoAk + barkskin 3) AD + Stoneform + DP 4) both trinkets + HoSac 5) = 1) I guess that should be right if I remember well. (got the real notes at home next to my PC)

Lucky bastard : ( I am a tauren, so you'll have much less trouble on Qon than I did.
My rotation was about the same: HA+AW+DP/AD+HoSac+DP+Barkskin/GoAK+DP.
Schroom wrote: I was afraid of that aswell, but if they get stunned kite them from the left to right and from the right to the left for a few seconds. as some bats reach you before others do they swing timers get spread out again.

Don't they fly in one big colliding pack? Swinging right to left is your last resort - it doesn't help dpsing bats down.
Schroom wrote: I got a loot of tips pleading for holy prism in the fight, and It would make sense. when adds spawn use HoPr on yourself. now your shield is full and you got snappaggro of all the bats, low cooldown as well and useable if you have to move or kite for a short while.

I was hardcasting FoL into myself O : ) If you don't get caught casting it while being bitten, it's not that big of a deal.
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Re: [10H] Tortos

Postby Winkle » Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:24 am

Galiks wrote:The only reason you'd have trouble solo tanking is you're not timing SoTR with Snapping Bites/Quake Stomp and not popping heavy defensive CDs upon the landing of the bats - thus they are draining you and not dying. When bats land, regardless of you being full HP with full crystal shell, you should have a heavy CD used immediately such as Holy Avenger for the first wave, GoAK for the second, DP/AD for the third, etc. Additionally, healers should bomb you during the landing and you should utilize DPS stuns such as remorseless winter and binding shot to your advantage. Two DPS (i.e. DK + hunter) plus your own DPS should wipe them out within 10 seconds at the most.

If you're kiting the bats around, you're unnecessarily complicating things.


You list a whole lot of prerequisites to solo tanking then state than by kiting your complicating things. In my mind letting a dk or monk kite the adds the whole fight removes any complication faced by solo tanking them.
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Re: [10H] Tortos

Postby Bemxuu » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:58 pm

I totally agree. But sometimes there is no reasonable kiter available.
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Re: [10H] Tortos

Postby Schroom » Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:41 am

Feedback of solotanking:

1) I didn't die and it was fun as hell :)
2) nonetheless it seems not doable for us without a rogue or a hunter, even tho we meanwhile had our holy paladin use Righteous Fury and stand inside me usually our restodruide got "bat" aggro. Or one of our DPS, usually the unholy DK. if something like that happened it was most certainly a wipe.
so we went back to 2 tanking. first I did the Boss and our Warrior did the adds. Not a chance to stack the shield on the warrior. Then I went back to the bats. And gave myself a nice WoG instantly after getting my shield, this helped the healers a lot.

we came to 40% after 7 minutes in our best attempt. But somehow I had more trouble to tank only bats and keeping up that shield then I had while solotanking... mostly because while solotanking I have a target in meleerange all the time. that was tortos itself, which made building holy power and SoTR a nearly impossible task (also somehow blizzard always gave me a turtle as default target after getting out of range because a turtle kicked me int eh air -.-)

mostly turtles, cavings and bats that prefered our healers or the DK made it very stressfull, and made me take more risks in order to get that aggro, neglecting cooldowns, losing the shield. having to ask for a slow/stun, getting out of meleerange, getting a new shield, insta LoH or WoG(5) to get it instantly fully up getting hit by a turtle again and so on... no fun at all!

also the kiting after a stun, yes it works. even those they are in a big pulk, some are always closer to you as others. and if you strife they get spread out again as those who are out of meleerange folow you first, desynchronizing that swingtimer again.
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Re: [10H] Tortos

Postby Winkle » Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:09 am

In my mind you can do it one of 3 ways.

Solo tank: Bats need to die before quake
Two tank: Bats still need to die before quake
Tank and Kite: Bats can be ignored by everyone but kiter.

Solo tanking and Tank and kite seem to offer clear advantages over properly 2 tanking the fight in that you don't waste time killing bats.
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Re: [10H] Tortos

Postby Bemxuu » Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:31 am

I'd say, it's more like that:
1. Kite if you can. Requires a monk with tanking spec or dk with frost spec. Alts would do.
2. Solotank if you cannot kite and can solotank. It's totally doable with paladin and monk tanks (Delicate Vial ftw), should be doable with guardian druid (same for Vial). Might be doable with warrior and proper external cooldowns rotation on him.
3. Double tank if neither works. But it's the least preferred option.
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Re: [10H] Tortos

Postby Schroom » Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:36 pm

the boss is just ass. without a hunter or rogue you are basically fucked as a DPS or a healer always gets aggro from the bats. also if the tnak healer gets kicked into the air it is usually a whipe as the shield fades from the bat-tank almost instantly even with all cooldowns. it's a fight where I hate having a GCD.
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Re: [10H] Tortos

Postby Bemxuu » Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:55 am

Did you try my FoL trick? I did it - and never had any difficulties getting agro.
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Re: [10H] Tortos

Postby Winkle » Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:02 am

Never experienced these threat issues either. I don't actually see how its possible for a healer to be out threating you considering you should be doing the most HPS anyway plus you have RF up.

If i solo tank, bats always come to me.
If we kite, bats come to me but a couple of dizzying haze's or a howling blast picks them up before they actually hit me.
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Re: [10H] Tortos

Postby Zylor » Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:18 am

Schroom wrote:the boss is just ass. without a hunter or rogue you are basically fucked as a DPS or a healer always gets aggro from the bats. also if the tnak healer gets kicked into the air it is usually a whipe as the shield fades from the bat-tank almost instantly even with all cooldowns. it's a fight where I hate having a GCD.


We do it without rogue and hunter and its still works quite well for us.
I (protpala) tank the bats and my tankmate (DK or warrior) is tanking that bigass turtle.
Its pretty easy to get aggro from bats with Holy Wrath.
I pull them to one foot of Tortos and then our 2 meeles (retri/feral/dk) + our 2 tanks just bomb the shiiiet out of these bats (preferable with 1 turtle kicked through them).
Range DDs are focusing turtles and our elemental shaman is kicking the turtles.
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Re: [10H] Tortos

Postby Schroom » Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:26 pm

Zylor wrote:We do it without rogue and hunter and its still works quite well for us.
I (protpala) tank the bats and my tankmate (DK or warrior) is tanking that bigass turtle.
Its pretty easy to get aggro from bats with Holy Wrath.
I pull them to one foot of Tortos and then our 2 meeles (retri/feral/dk) + our 2 tanks just bomb the shiiiet out of these bats (preferable with 1 turtle kicked through them).
Range DDs are focusing turtles and our elemental shaman is kicking the turtles.


we d the smae thing. but either some DPS or healer gets aggro, (even after I have holy wrath and HoTR on them) or my sheld drops even with GoAK on and then they don't die before the stomp... chaos. we also tried our DK kiteing them. worked better but it's quite risky, if he gets thrown by a turtly in the wrong moment he just dies.

I guess it's jsut to big for us atm. we confirmed our ji-kun kill today (also first try) and will go for Qon first.
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