Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

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Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

Postby AdaskoTheBeAsT » Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:50 pm

Hi,

as in subject - which one you will take as a haste loving tank?
http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=98146/oxhorn-bladebreaker vs
http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=98147/tigerclaw-cape

What math says? that crit reforged for expertise will it still manage strong lead before parry dodge?
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Re: Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

Postby Darrak » Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:31 pm

i'll be picking dps one even though i srsly hate crit items :(
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Re: Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

Postby fuzzygeek » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:26 pm

Both cloaks have mastery, and since it's not a matter of ilevel difference I'll certainly take Haste/Crit/(reforgedcrit) over Dodge/Parry.
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Re: Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

Postby daishan » Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:34 pm

I'm leaning towards the dps cloak but don't forget the tank one has a 90 stam socket bonus vs a 60 strength one.
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Re: Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

Postby Calaban » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:45 am

daishan wrote:I'm leaning towards the dps cloak but don't forget the tank one has a 90 stam socket bonus vs a 60 strength one.


Since I'll get a 480 Haste gem into that badboy....who cares about the socket bonus ;-)
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Re: Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

Postby daishan » Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:08 am

Lol, well personally I try to take socket bonuses especially stam ones, and for the moment at least I can gem haste/exp in red sockets and just reforge out of exp to end up with the same amount of total haste.
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Re: Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

Postby Zothor » Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:15 pm

Calaban wrote:
daishan wrote:I'm leaning towards the dps cloak but don't forget the tank one has a 90 stam socket bonus vs a 60 strength one.


Since I'll get a 480 Haste gem into that badboy....who cares about the socket bonus ;-)


Unless you're completely allergic to stam gems (in which case.... I am baffled) using the JC gems on secondary stats has always been a mistake this xpack. The way they were boosted, the primary stat gems are doubled, but the secondary stat gems are +160'd. I suspect this was based on a late design change to double the secondary stat gems from 160 to 320 to make them competitive, and JC was never fixed.

If you're using JC gems on haste, you're only gaining 320 total haste over the normal blue gems—a bonus of one gems worth. If you're using them on stam, you're gaining 480, a bonus of two gems worth.
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Re: Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

Postby Fenrìr » Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:47 pm

I would be rather interested to see your armory, mate, simply because I think you've got a bigger hard-on for stam than Theck does and that's saying something, lol.
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Re: Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

Postby Hawkslayer » Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:22 pm

Zothor wrote:
Calaban wrote:
daishan wrote:I'm leaning towards the dps cloak but don't forget the tank one has a 90 stam socket bonus vs a 60 strength one.


Since I'll get a 480 Haste gem into that badboy....who cares about the socket bonus ;-)


Unless you're completely allergic to stam gems (in which case.... I am baffled) using the JC gems on secondary stats has always been a mistake this xpack. The way they were boosted, the primary stat gems are doubled, but the secondary stat gems are +160'd. I suspect this was based on a late design change to double the secondary stat gems from 160 to 320 to make them competitive, and JC was never fixed.

If you're using JC gems on haste, you're only gaining 320 total haste over the normal blue gems—a bonus of one gems worth. If you're using them on stam, you're gaining 480, a bonus of two gems worth.



That's interesting. I've pretty much always used my JC gems on primary stats, but until you mentioned this, I had never noticed the shortcoming of JC secondary stat gems. Good to know.
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Re: Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

Postby lifeonmars » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:50 am

Zothor wrote:Unless you're completely allergic to stam gems (in which case.... I am baffled) using the JC gems on secondary stats has always been a mistake this xpack. The way they were boosted, the primary stat gems are doubled, but the secondary stat gems are +160'd. I suspect this was based on a late design change to double the secondary stat gems from 160 to 320 to make them competitive, and JC was never fixed.

If you're using JC gems on haste, you're only gaining 320 total haste over the normal blue gems—a bonus of one gems worth. If you're using them on stam, you're gaining 480, a bonus of two gems worth.


It's not an oversight at all, JC gems are correct. The total stat allocation on a JC gem has the following breakdown --

Total stat = (0.5 * Bonus Prof Amount) + Normal Gem Amount

The portion of the JC gem that accounts for the normal gem is double-itemized for secondaries. The prof bonus portion is not, consistent with the all the other prof stat bonuses.

Examples -

Stam: JC Gem = 480 = (0.5 * 480) + 240 (for example, prof bonus "Toughness" is 480)

Primary: JC Gem = 320 = (0.5 * 320) + 160 (for example, ring enchants are 2x160=320 priamries)

Secondary: JC Gem = 480 = (0.5 * 320) + 320

Basically the portion that reflects the prof bonus is itemized 1:1 secondary:primary, but the portion that reflects the opportunity cost of putting a normal gem in the socket is itemized 2:1 like a normal gem.

The oversight here is really that again, they've found a creative way to make blacksmithing mandatory min/max for any spec that prefers secondaries, because it gets double-itemization due to the sockets.
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Re: Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

Postby Marilee » Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:07 pm

Looks like now that we can see the procs on the legendary, final version of these capes, the DPS one is even more attractive. (Assuming the effects go on the corresponding cloak automatically.)

melee DPS proc: http://ptr.wowdb.com/spells/146195-flurry-of-xuen
tank proc: http://ptr.wowdb.com/spells/146193-endurance-of-niuzao

That tank proc... I mean, we usually avoid trinkets with that kind of effect, right? The extra damage from the melee dps proc looks nice, though.
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Re: Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

Postby Thels » Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:38 pm

lifeonmars wrote:
Zothor wrote:Unless you're completely allergic to stam gems (in which case.... I am baffled) using the JC gems on secondary stats has always been a mistake this xpack. The way they were boosted, the primary stat gems are doubled, but the secondary stat gems are +160'd. I suspect this was based on a late design change to double the secondary stat gems from 160 to 320 to make them competitive, and JC was never fixed.

If you're using JC gems on haste, you're only gaining 320 total haste over the normal blue gems—a bonus of one gems worth. If you're using them on stam, you're gaining 480, a bonus of two gems worth.


It's not an oversight at all, JC gems are correct. The total stat allocation on a JC gem has the following breakdown --

Total stat = (0.5 * Bonus Prof Amount) + Normal Gem Amount

The portion of the JC gem that accounts for the normal gem is double-itemized for secondaries. The prof bonus portion is not, consistent with the all the other prof stat bonuses.

Examples -

Stam: JC Gem = 480 = (0.5 * 480) + 240 (for example, prof bonus "Toughness" is 480)

Primary: JC Gem = 320 = (0.5 * 320) + 160 (for example, ring enchants are 2x160=320 priamries)

Secondary: JC Gem = 480 = (0.5 * 320) + 320

Basically the portion that reflects the prof bonus is itemized 1:1 secondary:primary, but the portion that reflects the opportunity cost of putting a normal gem in the socket is itemized 2:1 like a normal gem.

The oversight here is really that again, they've found a creative way to make blacksmithing mandatory min/max for any spec that prefers secondaries, because it gets double-itemization due to the sockets.


The problem is that you need to use a primary stat gem to get a primary bonus.

For example, for a Retribution Paladin to get 320 strength from JC, he has to use 2 strength gems already. He would normally use 2 haste gems in those slots (or perhaps strength/haste ones), so he actually benefits less from JC than most other professions.

Perhaps making it a little more visual. Let's say Haste is 0.6 times the value of Strength. One paladin has Enchanting, the other paladin has Jewelcrafting. Let's assume they have 2 red sockets in their gear (if they have less, it's even worse for JC).

The Enchanter would put 2x 80 Strength + 160 Haste in the sockets, and 2x 160 Strength on rings. The total itemization score would be 80 + 80 + 0.6*160 + 0.6*160 + 160 + 160 = 672.

The Jewelcrafter would put 2x 320 Strength in the sockets. The total itemization score would be 320 + 320 = 640. He's losing out because he is forced to use strength in those sockets, rather than haste.
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Re: Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

Postby Darrak » Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:19 pm

Marilee wrote:Looks like now that we can see the procs on the legendary, final version of these capes, the DPS one is even more attractive. (Assuming the effects go on the corresponding cloak automatically.)

melee DPS proc: http://ptr.wowdb.com/spells/146195-flurry-of-xuen
tank proc: http://ptr.wowdb.com/spells/146193-endurance-of-niuzao

That tank proc... I mean, we usually avoid trinkets with that kind of effect, right? The extra damage from the melee dps proc looks nice, though.


u kidding, right? the tank proc makes it the single most OP item in history
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Re: Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

Postby daishan » Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:32 pm

The tank proc is damn nice, maybe not the most OP item in history but up there.
I'm hoping we can apply the "enchant" to whichever cloak we want.
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Re: Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

Postby Worldie » Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:22 am

My understanding of the legendary quest is that you get the legendary cloak first, and at the end of the chain you get to apply whatever enchant you like to it.

If you think of it, it kinda makes sense, else the Agi tanks would be forced to take the STR tank cloak just due to the op effect.
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